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It might be Baldwin week, but the Mon US Show was on fire with all other storylines

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  • It might be Baldwin week, but the Mon US Show was on fire with all other storylines

    It may be a Baldwin week, but Monday's US episode the most intriguing stories WERE NOT the Baldwins, it was the Newmans and Abbotts and Phyllis and Diane. I miss the Phyllis Diane rivalry. That was so much better than Phyllis and Sharon. I was trying to remember if it was Nick who turned Victor in. but the Newman ranch scenes were one fire about to go up in flames. Sharon not knowing whats up, Nikki thinking everything is peachy, and Victoria knowing damn well it is NOT peachy. And Victor's stare at Nick at the end, boom. Loved hearing Jack say he loves Phyllis anyway, and cutting off his leg would hurt all the same as divorcing Phyllis.

    And the Phyllis scene with Diane, when she was about to break talking about Jack and Kyle and how Phyllis knows little things Kyle likes, it wasn't malicious at all, one of the best scenes I have watched with Phyllis ever!!! She fell vulnerable to her enemy and even Diane knew Phyllis was really hurt. I LOVE that Diane, Susan Walters, she was so good.

    I wish we could have a Newman week, but when the newman kids back stabbed Victor, or when Victor was at war with them, the good tension episodes. The dynamics with Sharon, Vicki, Nikki, and then Victor vs Nick and Shick, Adam, etc. I just really enjoyed this episode.

    Sharon was genuinely sad for Victor and what his dad did, Nikki was happy Nick went with Victor and that Victor was back, Vicki knew something was not right at all, and Nick and his looks with Victor, just pure gold. So much going on in those scenes, and it drew me in.

  • #2
    I agree. Those little touches are what used to make this show so great. The characters said so much without even saying anything. Such a great episode and a great throwback to how wonderful this show once was.

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree. The storylines about Nick turning Victor in, and Phyllis working with Victor against Jack were amazing. If I recall, Victor went to jail during the holidays, so the family gatherings were intense!

      I always reference that storyline because Nick had a bigger sense of right/wrong then than he does now. He wouldn't stand for it back then and it would have created an amazing dynamic between Nick/Victor if they built on that.

      Comment


      • #4
        Totally agree with you, that is, the Mon show was very layered with different characters. Not only the Baldwin/Fisher (Michael/Kevin), but also the Newmans (Victor, Nick, Victoria, Nikki, Sharon), the Abbotts with Jack/Ashley, and the Winters with Neil, Drucilla, and teenager Lily. Kevin Fisher trying to get Michael to help him and Michael outraged at his younger brother for getting into more trouble (with Lily) and Neil/Dru supporting their teen daughter and trying to make her go to court against Kevin, and the Newman/Jabot business intrigue with all of the other characters and with Victor in a meeting with Nick to let him know that he suspects or knows who might have snitched on him and now the law enforcement (Christine) is coming after him and he stares down Nick at the end of the episode. I am enjoying the past reruns, especially the ones that were created and produced under the influence of the creator of Y&R, Bill Bell. This one felt like one of Bill Bell's.

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        • #5
          layered
          That's it right there! The focus this week might be one family, but the writing is so LAYERED that you wouldn't know it was "BALDWIN" focused. THIS is what makes a GREAT soap opera--writing for the characters, not plot, and making the characters LAYERED.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by thecourt99 View Post
            I agree. The storylines about Nick turning Victor in, and Phyllis working with Victor against Jack were amazing. If I recall, Victor went to jail during the holidays, so the family gatherings were intense!

            I always reference that storyline because Nick had a bigger sense of right/wrong then than he does now. He wouldn't stand for it back then and it would have created an amazing dynamic between Nick/Victor if they built on that.
            this was always why I have an issue with Nick and Phyllis, Nick doesn't even blink an eye with all of the things Phyllis has done. Nick did used to have a sense of what is right and wrong and he stood firm on it, but when he got with Phyllis, the same woman who Daniel's very existence is the epitome of what Nick Newman despises, Nick just chalks up everything Phyllis does as Phyllis being Phyllis, meanwhile, he promises Sharon he will forgive her for a lie she can't remember, a lie Nick kept himself for 17 years, but Sharon gets Faith ripped from her life and outcasted to worse than the barn. But Phyllis is just being Phyllis. the Nick Newman in this episode wouldn't stand for Phyllis Summers.

            Comment


            • thecourt99
              thecourt99 commented
              Editing a comment
              There was another thread about Nick/Grace that made me think about this. Nick put Sharon on a pedestal from the beginning. Looking back at these episodes, Sharon definitely played into it as well. She was seen as pure and virginal. When Nick found out about Cassie, his first reaction was as if he had been betrayed and he began looking at her differently. When Sharon was raped and they thought her pregnancy was a result? Nick was mad about the rapist, and mad that Sharon wanted a healthy baby even though she didn't know who the father was. Everything that happened then seems to color how he sees her. He had a similar experience with his father, and when those rose colored glasses were removed, he was responsible for putting Victor in jail. But after that, he seemed to accept people for who they were....it just never applies to Sharon.

          • #7
            I was... wow. The quality of the writing of the show in comparison to what we were subjected to before the new episodes stopped is extremely jarring.

            Anyway, I was going to say: I know this isn't the case because BTS changing head writers at the time. but if this regime who wrote Monday's episode wrote the Phick affair (They didn't) this episode storyline would have been a good example of foreshadowing.

            Again, this is not the case.

            Comment


            • #8
              My take is that Characters drove plot more. Agitated looks and silence.

              Comment


              • Smithey
                Smithey commented
                Editing a comment
                EXACTLY!!! This is what great writing looks like! The argument that plot is needed more than characterization is completely false! Anyone that has an English major will tell you that. Y&R needs to stop "dumbing" down its writing with plots and let the characters drive the plot.

            • #9
              Agreed Smithey. I have a Bachelor’s in Creative Writing and a Master’s in Written Communication and characterization is so much more important than plot. Yes, a plot is necessary BUT if you don’t understand and care about the characters then the plot is essentially useless.

              Comment


              • Smithey
                Smithey commented
                Editing a comment
                Truth! Wish some others in the industry would recognize that.

              • Mr.Sami_Brady
                Mr.Sami_Brady commented
                Editing a comment
                I have a BFA in film production and a BA in Fine Arts (specializing in Film Studies) and a Diploma for Writing for Film and TV. (However, my education is all from mid-western Canada...so a silo of salt). It's really bad here in Canada too (there is no such thing as a Canadian Soap opera).

              • fracabell
                fracabell commented
                Editing a comment
                you guys are so right, some of my favorite shows are when you can feel for the characters, people who aren't even real, but you feel for them.

                Examples of good writing and feeling for the character, even when maybe you shouldn't:

                Dr House from House, I mean really you should have hated that guy he was awful, but the writing was so good that you couldn't help but feel for him

                Walter White--Breaking Bad--in the end I still wanted him to win, and he was a very bad man

                One of the best right now, Jimmy McGill/Saul Goodman on Better Call Saul--Jimmy is such a likeable guy, yeah he is grey and lives in the grey area, but he is so sweet and nice, and my heart breaks for him, all he ever wanted was the love of his brother and did so much for him

                Bad Examples and probably why shows were cancelled:

                Backstrom--I love Rainn Wilson, but his character was such a jerk and it kept getting worse, I didn't give a crap about him and wanted him to lose, did not make the main character have any redeeming qualities

                I love a good character with flaws, not perfect has had some bumps in the road but you still root for them, cause they truly have a good heart. but then the writing is so bad around that, such as certain characters who do so bad and don't care, and when the writing is so inconsistent and unbelievable around the character.

                To be honest, I don't feel at all for Victor Newman. and then Nick has a set of rules for one woman in his life and a whole different set for another. bad writing and it makes you hate the character.

            • #10
              One thing that Bill Bell definitely excelled at....Character-driven stories! His characters were certainly allowed to grow & develop through the years, but their basic, core personalities stayed true! There have been times during the past decade that I've heard a character speaking & thought, "Who is this person?!?" It seems that new writers want to make the existing characters into who THEY want them to be instead of working with the characters they already have. Obviously, a character can be expected to evolve but to suddenly change overnight gives the viewers a case of whiplash!

              Comment


              • #11
                Originally posted by Mysterio View Post
                My take is that Characters drove plot more. Agitated looks and silence.
                you are so right, as you could feel the tension in the room on everyone's faces, movements, all while victor was chatting about his father and how terrible he was. You almost didn't even hear that, a side conversation, but the scene was Sharon puzzled about whats going on, Nikki thinking everything is so wonderful that Nick and Victor bonded, Victoria knowing darn well something is up and not knowing what or how she can find out, and Nick and Victor's icy stares at each other. we know what happened after cause this was way back, but it did have some mystery to it, and made me long for the days when you watched a soap and it was over and you were like NOOOOOOOOOOOOO don't leave us like this.

                Comment


                • thecourt99
                  thecourt99 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  It's interesting that you pointed that out because for years later, viewers understood where Victor was coming from based upon those few interactions with his father. Not saying that people agreed with his tactics or liked Victor, but they understood him. All of that good will has been lost due to years of Victor doing crazy things without appropriate dialogue so that viewers can understand him. As a Victor fan, I don't understand him anymore.

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