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So Lope were supposedly happy in their little log cabin life happily in love, he thinks she kissed Thomas so he runs off and seduces Steffy who was vulnerable after her addiction issues, proclaims love and all that. He is given a pass for all that. Quinn was having problems in her marriage, feeling unloved and unwanted by her husband and ends up sleeping with a friend after connecting over in-depth convos, she did not go to Carter to seduce him, it happened unexpectedly between 2 willing parties. Now she is being sloot shamed and called out everywhere. Liam though, not so much. Your thoughts?
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Don't agree, but whatever. It depends on the character. First, I don't agree with your premise. Other than Eric, people who loathed Quinn before still do and do so more (Brooke and the Foresters). Those that liked her still do (Shauna, Flo and now Carter). Paris too I guess, but more because she was pretending to be Zoe's friend (sorry the 2nd time and the lies you can't blame on the 2 people just having 'accidental sex
. As for Liam. First, I don't see Steffy as a victim 
. She had an addiction for a New York minute 
, was in a monogamous relationship with Finn. Those that supported Liam in the past (Brooke) still does. Hope attempted to forgive and did. Those that loathed him still did (Thomas). Hope then made a decision to get over the affair and Thomas decided to respect her decision. No one, except for Steffy who will never forget their magical night 
together justified Liam. Others have called him on it, but no, they haven't 'vilified ' either.
Last edited by proudsoapfan; July 31, 2021, 11:00 PM.-
Prior to this re-write, Ridge and Steffy were fine with Quinn. They worked well together and there was no hostility. The "I hate Quinn" coming from Ridge and Steffy is out of the blue. They hate Quinn but not Flo. Not realistic At. All. Steffy not having any anger towards TSFTV or her mini me not realistic at all either. Thomas not being angry with Brooke and game playing Hope, not realistic either. -
Didn’t Ridge and Steffy dislike Quinn when Eric married her? If memory serves correctly they didn’t even attend the wedding. -
Steffy at best "tolerated" Quinn because Eric was claiming to love her and to be happy with Quinn.
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Steffy: Yeah, he's gonna come and so is...Quinn.
Liam: Quinn. Right. I know. I know that they're a package deal. It's just, uh... picturing Quinn at our wedding is like so...
Steffy: I know, I get it. I get it, I completely understand where you're coming from and how you feel. It's just... it's my grandfather. And I love him so much.
(Feb 27, 2017)
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Steffy: You had an affair with Quinn?
Steffy: I don't understand. You and Quinn hated each other. You wanted Quinn out of my granddad's life just like I did!
Steffy: Well, I don't know if that's possible. [Scoffs] I warned granddad. I fought so hard for that relationship not to happen. I knew Quinn was gonna hurt him. But I never thought in a million years you would help her do it. You are my father, you are my mentor, and I love you so much. But I don't know what to think of you right now.
(July 18, 2017)
Quinn: Yes, it happened more than once, but it was never more than just a kiss. And it's over. It'll never happen again. And we both deeply regret it.
Steffy: When did you start deeply regretting it? Was it the whole time or after the truth came out? I am so deeply disappointed in my dad. But I'm not surprised you were eventually gonna hurt my grandfather.
(July 19, 2017)
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You're entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.Comment
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^^of course. You asked for thoughts and I shared mine.Originally posted by SweetJade View PostComment
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Everything you said SweetJade is absolutely correct. That's exactly what happened.
No matter how many times Liam cheats he's practically high-fived by both Brooke and Taylor wanting him for their daughters. I can't count how many times Taylor and Ridge both threw Steffy at the cheater Liam and the same with Brooke she continually throws Hope at cheater Liam.
Oh well Liam's so miserable in his little shack he had to run out and have sex with his ex first chance he got.
Quinn and Carter not so miserable. They're having hot sex continually. Neither even want their ex. Quinn's like ... let's get this divorce over. I'm not even getting a lawyer.Comment
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Quintessential, I was really hoping that revelation would have been made during the Vinny storyline and give it actual substance instead of it just being another Lope prop. It would have done a lot for the character of Liam to see that he "broke" over what had happened and maybe garner some sympathy for the character. Would love to see Hope have to eat crow about Taylor not being allowed near the Childwen -
SweetJade That's another good point. Liam doesn't just get a pass for cheating, he gets a pass for attempted murder.
When Hope thought Liam had shot Bill that was perfectly understandable excusable even because Bill drove Liam to that point Liam's a good man who would never have done something like that unless provoked, according to Hope. And he of course would be allowed around the children.
But then when Hope finds out it's Taylor, Oh completely different story. Taylor's ostracized. Even though Ridge had convinced her Bill had raped her daughter, Taylor shooting Bill was not understandable not excusable. Taylor's dangerous.
And even Liam running over Vinny. When they thought it was someone else they all had the most horrible things to say. Until they found out it was Liam. Oh well then it was an accident. Liam didn't mean to leave him by the side of the road dead, that was all Bill.
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Double standards abound on this show. Cheating is wrong, although I love Quarter and Quinn falling into Carter's arms was the best thing to happen to her. That said, Liam chose to go out and sleep with someone, and that someone was Steffy. And it's not just Liam, there are numerous way more grievous examples of adultery on this show than a woman being shunned by her husband and finding attention and an epic connection in the arms of another man. Brooke has cheated with family members of her spouses and spouses of her family members. She is in no position to cast aspersions on anyone.
These other cheaters are treated like butter wouldn't melt in their mouths, but Quinn like the spawn of the devil. It's ridiculous. Right is right and wrong is wrong, and there is plenty wrong with the cheating hypocrites: Brooke, Ridge, Eric, and Steffy, and that's just the Forresters.Comment
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I wish you all would stop making excuses for Quinn's adultery. It just doesn't fly. Liam got grief from Hope, who ultimately chose to forgive him. But then Liam wasn't conniving against Hope's children or spiking an alcoholic's drink, was he? I don't feel one bit sorry for Quinn. She made her bed, and she seems to be enjoying it since she and Carter rarely leave it.Comment
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I just reread my post and nowhere in it do I see where I made any excuses for Quinn's adultry but I'll be happy to do so.
The old goat Eric forgot to tell Quinn there would be three people in the marriage so Quinn decided she'd make it four. #goquarter
Brooke can always make excuses for Liam's cheating and for her own cheating. Wonder why the same excuses don't apply to Quinn? -
Liam maybe a cheater but at least he didn't kidnap anyone, try to rape anyone, ostracize anyone like Quinn did. Tired of The Poor Quinn excuses too.
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Steffy wasn't vulnerable. She was/is in a loving, happy relationship with Finn. They were both drunk and fell into old habits based on their underlying love for each other. Hope left him as soon as she found out (the fact Steffy might've been pregnant with Liam's child only made it worse). Unlike Finn, it took Hope some time to forgive him to the point he was back at home with her. No, Brooke didn't vilify him. She understands how Hope feels about Liam and ultimately supported her into forgiving enough of what he did so that they're back together again. This is all about how Brooke feels about each person. She never liked Quinn. And why should she? Quinn is the one who came up with the scheme to break up her marriage with Ridge by interjecting Shauna into things. Steffy isn't going call out Liam. She loves him and knows she had her part in the one night stand. I doubt she has pleasant feelings towards Quinn, again considering the crap she tried to pull with Ridge (her father). Also, let's not forget that Liam finally went to Hope and told her the whole story. Quinn did no such thing. Eric found out, in quite the embarrassing way, in front of family, when they were going to renew their wedding vows.Originally posted by SweetJade View Post
Liam is a knucklehead who all too quickly ran to Steffy after he thought Hope was kissing Thomas. He should've known better.
Quinn has done some not terribly nice things to people (including Liam). The affair with Carter is the most innocent of those things.
Where we can hope Liam doesn't screw up again. We know Quinn is biding her time until she can screw with Brooke (who isn't a sweetheart either).Last edited by JHope; August 1, 2021, 12:26 AM.Comment
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Hope has cheated on Liam numerous times. Laim has caught her in the act. No big deal was made of that by the writers but Hope still cheated and gave Liam reason to believe she cheated yet again. Hope had sex with and got knocked up by and married a man she knew was still in love with his wife. -
If I recall correctly, Hope didn't ask Liam to leave until the paternity test named Liam as the father of Steffy's baby. -
Correct RedheadTeacher and then that only lasted as long as uber eats and flowers did, then she let him crawl right back in her bed, knowing he still loves Steffy
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pointing out double standards doesn't mean that cheating is excused (and I don't excuse cheating)Originally posted by Belindaa View Post
Let's look at e.g. at Brooke and how she treated Quinn and Steffy in comparison to Liam.
The women are damned but Liam's cheating it totally acceptable and no reason fo Hope to leave him in Brooke's mind?
Or look at Carter and Quinn.
Eric hired the guy his wife cheated him on with for handle his divorce? Seriously?
Like...I don't mind you sleeping with my wife and I still trust you enough to be my lawyer?
to each their own. But I see double standards here.
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Tahemet You're right regarding Brooke's double standard. She went over to Steffy's house, accused her of getting Liam drunk, told her that she should have sent Liam home, and was convinced that Steffy set out to destroy Lope's marriage. In contrast, we never saw or heard about any confrontation with Liam, even though they live on the same property, and she mentioned passing him when coming over to visit Hope. She also consistently pushed Hope to forgive Liam, even when Hope was doubtful about their future.
And regarding Quarter, Brooke lays complete blame and condemnation on Quinn, saying that she seduced Carter. She refers to the situation as "this whole Quinn mess".
In both situations, the men were equally responsible for their part in the cheating. They are not, however, getting equal blame or punishment.
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This is a false equivalence. You are comparing an affair to a ONS.
Quinn had sex with the family’s employee multiple times before she got outed.
Quinn had no excuse for her second affair.
She got caught and dropped for the first time and is already happy with Carter.
I don’t see what’s the problem. It’s not like being exposed affected the woman that much.
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Liam was contrite soon after his ONS with Steffy and wanted to tell Hope. Quinn was only sorry about her affair with Carter when she got caught. And she is still sneaking around with Carter! When he suggested coming clean with their 'relationship' she stopped him cold. I guess an honest relationship that involves more than sex is not what Quinn is looking for. -
I recall Liam insisting to Steffy that he didn't regret sleeping with her. Of course he didn't share that with Hope, but she did nail him when she asked him if he told Steffy that he loved her, and he couldn't get away with lying.
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Intent + circumstances
Characters like Brooke, Ridge, Thomas, Steffy, Hope.... know that Liam didn't have an "affair" while still living with his spouse, didn't cheat on his wife by repeatedly having sex and afterwards going home to his spouse.
They all "believe" Liam that he has turned to Steffy because of what he had thought he had seen, that there has been a trigger:
- It has only happened once.
- They all have heard Liam going off for months about how Thomas can't ever be trusted, what Thomas has done to Lope, how much Liam blames Thomas.... and so they all believe Liam that his wife turning to Liam's most hated person would be a breaking point for his marriage.
-They also know that Liam already has his scars and already had a spouse that betrayed him even with his own father - leading to Liam walking out on that pregnant spouse and demanding an annulment, living separated for months despite the pregnancy.
- Liam again had been willing to walk out on his marriage - has even angrily confronted his wife the morning after, who then was the one who explained to her husband that he has mistaken the Hope-lookalike doll for his wife.
Liam: No, no, no. Don't do that. Don't you put this on douglas. I know, yes. Douglas loves his father, yes. He likes seeing the two of you together. That's not what this is about, hope. This is about you. This is about you letting Thomas back into our lives. It's about you putting him on your line of work. It's about you inviting him into our home. And you told me, you told me that I should give him the benefit of the doubt, right? I should be a little more understanding of the guy who robbed us of months with our daughter, of months with each other, who attacked us over and over and over again in his sick obsessive pursuit of you. But, no, thomas has changed, right? He said so, he told us so he's different. And I was just supposed to take his word for it. Well, that was a lie. It was a lie just like everything else. And it looks like he's reeled you back in. And more so, he's got you lying, too. How could you do this? How could you do this to us?
Hope: How could I do what? I have no idea what you are talking about.
Liam: I told you. I saw you last night. Here. You and Thomas. Together. You just--you just destroyed our marriage.
- Liam and Steffy also both put part of the blame on the alcohol they had been drinking.
- Except for Finn, they all know Liam for 10 years already and that he is quite impulsive and not very logical. They have had front seats that Liam never questions situations when upsets but proposes to the other girl, has sex with her, moves on .... and only starts to wonder/regrets his actions later on.
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I get the "double standards" matter, if Quinn had been in Liam's place but the other characters would treat her differently than Liam,
but what "misunderstanding" has caused Quinn to turn to Carter and to have sex with him at different occasions?
Where has been the alcohol that supposedly has influenced their thinking/ behavior?
When has Quinn tried to end her marriage to Eric because she was done?
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ITA with you Historia. They are comparing a secret love affair (repeated adultery) with a ONS based on a misunderstanding.
Where is the "double standard", when
*) one character tried to keep her husband but had a lover secretly
* ) the other character had been willing to end his marriage over his "breaking point" and had clearly said so (Ridge had been told by Steffy, Hope by Liam herself, Brooke by Hope,...)
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Liam and Quinn have been at different positions before the adultery.
Liam has been Hope's hero who has reunited her with their child, who has been several times right about Thomas' scheming and who tried to protect her, who has accepted Douglas into their family/ life despite his feelings and worries about Douglas' father. Hope has been there and has heard Liam's words and struggling.
Quinn has been on her 3rd or 4rd chance already in the QUERIC marriage (Eric forgiving her crazy past and alienating his family for her, forgiving her betrayal with his son, forgiving the shady scheme with the picture frame, forgiving the Las Vegas scheme and getting his son drunk/ divorced against his will and married to a woman he had never chosen/ committed to...)
and Quinn knew that her husband still struggled to get over her latest betrayal, when she then betrayed him with Carter.Comment
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Brooke would not be getting the grief on this board, had she treated both Liam's infidelity and Quinn's infidelity the same. You would think as a mother, she would have ripped Liam a new a-hole (as we say in my family) for cheating on HER daughter. She didn't do that. She didn't say boo to Liam. Why is the question? After all, it was a crime, against HER precious daughter Hope. Instead, she hopped on her broomstick and ripped into Steffy instead. She blamed Steffy for the one night stand, while Liam was completely blameless in Brooke's warp mind. Steffy must really have some magical power, that she somehow lured poor widdle Liam to her house and had her way with him. It seems that she and Hope don't care that Liam cheats. Just as long as it's NOT with Steffy.
As for Quinn's infidelity: Brooke acts like Quinn committed the crime of the century. We get it, she hates Quinn. She tell us every chance she gets. In fact, Bell beats viewers over the head with it constantly. Anyway, no one here is excusing it. I'm not anyway. I just said that I understand it from Quinn's point of view. She didn't set out to hurt Eric. Although, I'm sure she was hurt by Eric's constant rejections and the way he seems to side with Brooke over her at every turn. The reason why I was happy Quinn got to tell Eric how she felt. She took full responsibility for her part in the destruction of their marriage. And reminded Eric that he's responsible as well. Naturally, the hypocrites Brooke and Ridge saw it as Quinn playing the blame game. No Brooke, that's a move out of your play book.
So for Brooke when it comes to infidelity, she totally blames the women and gives the men a free pass. She is the LAST person to be playing judge and jury, when it comes to infidelity. She comes off like the hypocrite that she is.
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??Originally posted by Tahemet View Post
Brooke in 2018 first wanted to blame it on Bill and that he had taken advantage of his son's wife out of revenge.
In 2018 we had Brooke first stating that Leffy can work through their issues and get over that betrayal and comparing them to BRIDGE - until Liam didn't get over it for a long time and Hope had admitted that she had never stopped loving Liam.
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Brooke: I never thought in a million years that you'd do something like this. Steffy said it was consensual.
Bill: You don't believe her?
Brooke: I don't know! I don't know what to believe anymore. I remember you threatening to get revenge on liam. I just never thought you'd stoop this low.
Brooke: You fell for her. Really? You really think that there are feelings there? Because steffy is so distraught that she lost liam! So, that's it? That is your justification -- that you just got carried away with your feelings for her? You had no agenda? Well, I don't believe you, bill, because you always have an agenda. Steffy is not gonna go for it. I can tell you that right now. She has way too much to lose.
Brooke: Well, then leave them the hell alone, bill, because if you don't, it's gonna be on you! And you're not gonna want to live your life that way. Trust me. So you'd better just hope that their family does not disintegrate because of what you've done, and you better pray that Liam forgives his wife.
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Brooke: Well, I believe that love conquers all. No matter how hard the obstacle. And I think that maybe we could be an example for our children. You and I have been through so much through the years, and we've forgiven each other. And we love each other.
Brooke: Maybe more than we ever have. And I just think that maybe they could learn something from us, you know? They could... it might help with them their issues, their problems. I don't know. I just love you so much. I do. I just...
Brooke: No. I mean, he may be upset with you right now, but there's no way he's fallen out of love with you, steffy. There's still that deep connection.
Brooke: Yes, liam, we understand that it's devastating when you lose the faith and the trust in the person that you love. Well, now that is shattered. But it is possible to repair the commitment. It is. And ridge and I are here to show you that.
Ridge: See that? She's wearing my ring. After everything I've done to this woman. I broke her heart. And she found a way to forgive me. It took awhile. But we're here.
Brooke: Thanks, honey. So, how was steffy?
Hope: Uh, disappointed that liam didn't show.
Brooke: Yeah, ridge and me, too.
Hope: About that... I don't know what to do, mom. I don't know what to think. I felt like I had to be there for her at the wedding. I mean, she was hurting. But, I mean, she slept with her father-in-law. I mean, bill, your ex-husband.
Brooke: [ Sighs ] I know. But she does regret what she did.Last edited by viennagirl; August 1, 2021, 03:37 AM.Comment
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Tahemet
I can just repeat that I don't see these comparisons between different situations as being the same thing.
I wouldn't treat a ONS and an affair the same way either in real life. I might forgive the first, but doubt I would forgive if my spouse has a lover.
But if you feel that Steffy having a ONS,
Liam betraying his wife based on a misunderstanding and thinking she has cheated on him first and their marriage is over for good,
is just the same thing as Quinn having a sexual affair repeatedly behind her husband's back while fighting for her marriage,
that is your opinion and is good as well.
We clearly have different standards.
And that is normal and okay (We are individuals with different attitudes/ thinking). -
if you paid attention to my posts you would have seen that
1) I didn't excuse cheating or Quinn anywhere
2) Cheating is cheating, no matter if it is an affair or a ONS,
3) my whole point is about Brooke's behaviour. Brooke attacked both Quinn and Steffy but let Liam off the hook. I had no problem with Brooke's behaviour if she would have confronted Liam as well. But she didn't. And if you excuse a man cheating but not the cheating of a woman then we have indeed very different standards. -
You haven't mentioned Quinn in any of your replies to my posts, but yes, I really get it that for you someone cheating repeatedly on her husband and lying to him, tricking his son into a marriage he did not agree to, is the same as a ONS and should get treated the same way.
As I said, like BRIDGE and Steffy I have different standards and think differently if it happened once or repeatedly, if it happened based on a misunderstanding or has been an intentional affair while being happy in the marriage (Quinn 2017) or still fighting for that marriage (Quinn 2021).
And no, I have no gender bias either.
The actions and circumstance do matter to me, not the gender.
I can easily admit that when my brother-in-law has admitted that he wants to end his marriage because he had fallen for someone he had communicated with on the internet/ then always phoned her, I have been very angry about his betrayal of my sister - but I never confronted him then and let my sister handle that situation.
My mother too had been upset, but we still treated him normally and tried to understand his reasonings instead of confronting him/ blaming him. (And we both thought it is a midlife crisis thing).
He soon realized that his chat partner hadn't really been interested in him that way, didn't really want him to leave his family for her and didn't want to live with him (or even meet him?). Some months later he moved back in for good and hasn't looked for someone else/hasn't cheated on my sister as far as I know.
But I would act very differently if that hadn't been something that has only happened once and if he repeatedly cheated on my sister and would continue to move in and out (confusing his kids).
If I had a brother and his wife had acted as my brother-in-law did, I would still have acted the same way and would have let my brother handle it if it happened only once.
If my sister had been the one who had acted that way and had started an online affair and had been willing to walk out of her marriage (and the children?), I would have confronted her as I do when my sibling does something that I think is harmful for her (I have confronted her about why she refused to get her second Covid vaccination when she already had been vaccinated once (but still needed the second for it to be really effective).
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What female character on screen did we ever have who has acted yet like Quinn and who has cheated twice on her husband,
who has made out with his son for months behind his back while being happy with her husband and sharing his bed,
who had sex repeatedly with someone while stating that she loves her husband and wants to save her marriage,
who has betrayed her husband while being on her 3rd? 4rd? 5th? chance during a 5 year marriage?
In your opinion Finn should have treated Steffy the same way as Eric should treat Quinn?
And 100% yes, I would have blasted Liam too if he had been in a relationship with Hope and claimed to be happy, had told a married but upset Steffy that she should talk to her husband first, that he can't believe that Finn would act that way and betray her, that she is talking that way because of the alcohol, then has sex with Steffy, just to tell her the next day again to go home to her husband and to talk to Finn because there is too much on stake to just walk out on her marriage and their child Hayes.
I don't have a gender bias.
I am okay with people ending their relationships/marriages if they are unhappy (it is better than make everyone in a family unhappy) but honest about it,
but I don't like people cheating secretly while claiming to want their marriage to work/ claim that they respect someone's marriage but still act as if sex isn't a betrayal.
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Agreee with the OP Quinn was no better than LiamComment
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