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  • B&B has lost its elegance

    As I binge through Season 2 of B&B (this particular season beginning in 1988), I compare all the story, characters, plot threads, and music to today's B&B and notice one major absence of something; Elegance. Class. Sophistication.

    Mind you, today's daytime TV needs to connect to the millennial and Gen X audiences, which unfortunately creates a disconnect from what B&B used to be.

    The writers at the time went for a particular style that lasted over a decade with this show. B&B has always been about fashion, romance, and beautiful people. To some degree it's still there, but not quite. I compare the dialogue to today's B&B and everyone talks like they're from a teen flick rather than speaking with some form of eloquent speech.

    This obviously is an unfortunate result of the writers not speaking above a moderate high school level themselves leaving plotlines uninteresting and dialogue completely boring. The actors/actresses are doing their best with the material given, so I give them props for that.

    As a matter of fact, we have fantastic people on the cast that have come and gone due to writers not giving them the material they deserve.

    Finally, the music today sucks. I understand they're trying to mimc the tone of other TV shows and movies today (there's an entire topic over the death of melody in general pop culture), but B&B was never like anything else at the time it premiered and for the decade after it.

    Someone needs to take hint at this and revive this show to be something more than other soaps on T

  • #2
    I agree 100%.
    I'm a millennial and I enjoy watching the older episodes for the very reasons you mentioned in your post. I dont know I think the producers,executives and showrunners for many networks grossly underestimate their audience's. I remember watching a roundtable a few years ago where George Clooney said the executives hated the pilot episode of ER because they thought the audience wouldn't get (too much medical jargon) and it went on to become one of the most successful tv shows.
    I love good dramas that can take their time and explore nuisances and feels organic in their progression of storylines like The Crown, Mindhunters, Game of Thrones (season 1 - 4) even Outlander etc.

    I hope they can turn this around because like you said they have an amazing cast and even people who left due to lack of storyline could maybe comeback. This show has such an amazing history and IMO the best love triangle in soap history (of course I'm talking about Taylor, Ridge and Brooke) although their storyline deteriorated as well especially post 2005.

    prestonrcasey can you tell me where you watched season 2? I live in South Africa and not sure if the content is available here btw South Africa canceled The Bold and the Beautiful earlier this year after running it for decades.
    Miss
    Day Player
    Last edited by Miss; May 6, 2020, 02:18 AM.

    Comment


    • prestonrcasey
      prestonrcasey
      Lurking in the Shadows
      prestonrcasey commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm also a millennial, and I have always been drawn to the older episodes of B&B especially after about 2010 or so. Given what I've learned about this show's writing history, I can understand why it fell apart after 2008. The writer strike in 2008 led to new people coming aboard and completely unraveling anything and everything this show used to be.

      Me personally the best love triangle was between Ridge/Caroline/Brooke because it took its time to develop and create havoc on the Forrester family. The ultimate payoff was when Ridge married Caroline, but I only found this out because she was intending to leave the show not long after. I can only imagine what it would be like if Caroline was still alive today!

      I can send you a link in PM to the playlist if you want, it includes Season 2,3 and 4. I'm currently on Season 2

    • Miss
      Miss
      Day Player
      Miss commented
      Editing a comment
      prestonrcasey
      Lurking in the Shadows
      prestonrcasey yes that would be much appreciated 👍.

      I haven't seen that much about Caroline, Ridge and
      Brooke triangle only scattered scenes here and there on youtube.

  • #3
    Prestonrcasey what a great way to articulate the state of the show today: "B&B has lost its elegance." Rural 1950's housewives would roll their eyes at the lack of sophistication of the current B&B. I totally agree about the dialogue; it can almost lull you into a coma. I made a comment just last night in another thread that the writers write as if they're a 13 year old who is imagining the way life is as a grown-up. I remember being a teen and saying if my significant other does this or that, I'm out. But when you become an adult you learn that is way too simplistic. Yet, on this show couples have weddings and annulments every alternating year. Just ridiculous!!

    Comment


    • prestonrcasey
      prestonrcasey
      Lurking in the Shadows
      prestonrcasey commented
      Editing a comment
      The writers are reflective of their own experience and intelligence in life. I'm not saying they're dumb or stupid, but the writers themselves lack any experience of sophistication and class. It isn't just the writers, but today's generation has shifted away from the need and want to learn to be more than generic.

  • #4
    I don't agree. The bold and the beautiful is a great show. Especially whenever Sheila's on it

    Comment


    • #5
      Originally posted by SheilaFan32 View Post
      I don't agree. The bold and the beautiful is a great show. Especially whenever Sheila's on it
      Sheila hasn't been on B&B in two years. Her last appearance I believe, was waiting tables at Il Giardino in spring 2018.

      Comment


      • prestonrcasey
        prestonrcasey
        Lurking in the Shadows
        prestonrcasey commented
        Editing a comment
        The writers gave nothing interesting to Sheila other than a sad attempt at the Sheila/Mike dynamic with that other random Forrester security guard. I forget his name because they made him a goofy comedic relief that didn't work.

      • LisaM1983
        LisaM1983
        Recurring Poster
        LisaM1983 commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes, the show's ultimate villain, who had previously shot 3 of the leading characters, was last seen waiting tables.

      • Appaloosagrl
        Appaloosagrl
        Board Regular
        Appaloosagrl commented
        Editing a comment
        I agree. It's ridiculous.

        But note: Other than the Logans: Hope, Liam, Brooke, Flo, Shauna - and by association Ridge and Thomas, none of the other major characters have had story lines of their own for the last two years or so.

        At least, Sheila in her approximately one year back on B&B before Brad Bell lost interest in the character, did manage to get into a couple of good fights with Quinn and Steffy. She also manipulated Charlie -- who was silly putty in her hands -- and that was mildly entertaining.

        I believe KB left because she intended to run for public office. Sheila may reappear again. Who knows?

    • #6
      I couldn't agree more with everything you said, OP. Go back and watch any clip from the Bill Bell era and the difference couldn't be more stark. Even the "office scenes" made you think the characters knew one iota about how to run a business. You could tell a lot about a character by their way of speaking: Stephanie always spoke with an expansive vocabulary and seemed like a very educated woman. The Logans were by contrast a more middle-class family, which you don't see much of anymore (or on Y&R for that matter). And the music was wonderful. Y&R often had an eerie string accompaniment, while B&B's was comparatively upbeat, but very classy on both shows. The cheap-sounding elevator music they use now can't compare.

      Triangles used to work because they didn't eat up 100% of the show and characters didn't swap partners as often, so you had more time to get invested and the payoff was much greater. Stories also didn't drop off a cliff from one day to the next, so you didn't have to question whether or not it would be worth investing the time to watch.

      The show clearly has tried to market itself toward a younger audience, but most young people I know don't watch daytime TV. The young people who would likely have more sophisticated viewing habits than current B&B would provide.
      LisaM1983
      Recurring Poster
      Last edited by LisaM1983; May 6, 2020, 12:06 PM.

      Comment


      • LisaM1983
        LisaM1983
        Recurring Poster
        LisaM1983 commented
        Editing a comment
        I also remember characters having staff/servants more in the older shows. Stephanie had her maid, Maria, for years. That probably wouldn't fly today.

      • prestonrcasey
        prestonrcasey
        Lurking in the Shadows
        prestonrcasey commented
        Editing a comment
        The triangles were indeed more of a backdrop or treated with some sort of importance rather than forcing it down the viewer's throats. The show revolved around Ridge's love life for the entirety of the show, but it worked given the circumstances of the actresses coming in and out of the show. Caroline's death was because JJ didn't want the role anymore, Taylor's death for a similar reason until she came back (twice), and Brooke's character was constantly used as the second choice until Brad Bell tried to retcon this idea.

        Also, the concept of hispanic staff ended when Maria had a death in the family in the early 2000's if I remember correctly. I think this was when they tried to introduce regular Hispanic people on the show in attempt to rectify the persona that Hispanic people are servants.

    • #7
      I was watching the wedding of Taylor and Omar yesterday and was struck by how different the show was. The costumes, sets, dialogue was all great. We had scenes with Sally that weren’t related to the triangle at all. Brooke and James were on. The imagination put into the story with Taylor being the princess and wanting to help the children....it was just so well thought out.

      Now everything just seems slapped together. One story plays at a time, or people just sit around talking about it. Nothing imaginative or exotic.

      Comment


      • Miss
        Miss
        Day Player
        Miss commented
        Editing a comment
        I agree that storyline was amazing. Think there is a lot of potential storylines that could still be told about Taylor and her family the Hamiltons and Ashfords.

      • prestonrcasey
        prestonrcasey
        Lurking in the Shadows
        prestonrcasey commented
        Editing a comment
        YES, this is why I hate watching B&B now! They revolve the entire show around one storyline that involves literally everyone for SOME reason. They waste scenes with the other characters talking about the one storyline happening rather than multiple storylines being told. I grew entirely frustrated with Ridge/Brooke/Eric/etc talking about Liam/Hope/Steffy's lives on screen more than having their own story.

        I'm currently watching an episode from 1988 that involves the Ridge shooting, and we have:
        -Stephanie and Eric talking with the lieutenant about shooting Ridge
        -Brooke and Thorne speaking about her relationship with Ridge
        -Margot and Ridge speaking about her pregnancy
        -Caroline in therapy about her marriage

        There were at least four strings of completely different stories happening in one episode, and other things are also happening at this time!

        Now we only have maybe a total of two major things happening in the recent years.

      • ILoveBizzie
        ILoveBizzie
        Soap Addict
        ILoveBizzie commented
        Editing a comment
        Agree with both these posts.

    • #8
      I have no idea how B & B used to be other than tuning in and seeing the last few minutes of the show on ocasion while waiting on my beloved ATWT to come on. The writers are always being blamed, but we are not allowed to say anything about the acting. I will never understand this. Anyway, what struck me the most about the OP's post was the "death of melody" in music. Wow! I sure do agree with that.

      Comment


      • prestonrcasey
        prestonrcasey
        Lurking in the Shadows
        prestonrcasey commented
        Editing a comment
        The writers are most certainly being blamed because they are not the same people prior to 2007. Brad Bell also shifts the direction constantly of this show, and it was only acceptable in the early 2000's because the writing staff was mostly the same up until the strike.

        I feel the actors now are the best they have ever been but are only doing their best with the material given.

        The death of melody comes from most pop music relying on little memorable motifs and musical phrases these days, and more on chords and one line of melodic structure
        Moore ideas
        Look! Up in the sky! It's a Super Moderator!
        Last edited by Moore ideas; November 15, 2021, 02:32 PM. Reason: Characterizing acting abilities.

    • #9
      I don't have a long history with B&B, but I have been watching soaps since 1964, when I was in grade school. As a result, I have a pretty good idea of what works (and what doesn't) in this genre.

      Currently, I am re-watching some key episodes from Another World's heyday in 1979, and damn they were good. There are scenes between Mac and Rachel that flow so well that it hardly seems like a writer told them what to say. The feeling and the chemistry were just THERE. And the mystery that unfolded with Janice trying to kill Mac by using an idea she lifted from an unpublished manuscript was twisted, clever, and fun to watch.

      Granted, the pace of the show was significantly slower, but it was a time when the audience valued longer scenes and real communication among characters. According to media experts, we've lost that in younger generations that want a faster pace and don't have patience for a longer-term payoff. But, I wonder if that's true. Part of me thinks that people would watch a good drama if they had the confidence to go back to the old school methods and write one accordingly. To me, the payoff is worth the investment.

      Comment


      • prestonrcasey
        prestonrcasey
        Lurking in the Shadows
        prestonrcasey commented
        Editing a comment
        I think what you're referring to is possibly instant gratification, and I can agree with this sentiment. Younger viewers do not want to invest time into something long-term, if this is even true. The show adapted to holding storylines for a short couple of months rather than having something last for a year.
        The best example of what I'm watching now is Ridge sleeping with Caroline when they were both drunk which affected their lives for an entire year of the show's run time!

      • YDoIStillWatch
        YDoIStillWatch
        Senior Board Member
        YDoIStillWatch commented
        Editing a comment
        Instant gratification is certainly a problem. I think most of us experience this in some form or another. I wouldn't say younger viewers don't value longer more thought out plots. There are many ongoing series people become hooked on and continue to watch. It just doesn't seem to be happening with daytime. To your original point
        prestonrcasey
        Lurking in the Shadows
        prestonrcasey, Bell and the writers are the problem. Perhaps they are not as passionate or invested in the stories as previous writers used to be? Could explain the repetitive dialog which drives me nuts. I think today budget, or smaller budget, has a lot to do with what is happening too.

    • #10
      I don't know the history of the show nor the history of the writing or writers. I'm just saying it is very frustrating to always see people blaming the writing and not a word can be said about the acting! Seems very unbalanced to me!!

      Comment


      • NuttyAboutSoaps
        NuttyAboutSoaps
        Senior Board Member
        NuttyAboutSoaps commented
        Editing a comment
        No one wants to get banned for bashing an actor. However, some posts that criticized the writing got pulled, too.

        To be honest, it seems to be on a case-by-case basis. It's all a matter of how things are worded and whether anyone is offended enough to report it.

    • #11
      Originally posted by prestonrcasey View Post
      As I binge through Season 2 of B&B (this particular season beginning in 1988), I compare all the story, characters, plot threads, and music to today's B&B and notice one major absence of something; Elegance. Class. Sophistication.

      Mind you, today's daytime TV needs to connect to the millennial and Gen X audiences, which unfortunately creates a disconnect from what B&B used to be.

      The writers at the time went for a particular style that lasted over a decade with this show. B&B has always been about fashion, romance, and beautiful people. To some degree it's still there, but not quite. I compare the dialogue to today's B&B and everyone talks like they're from a teen flick rather than speaking with some form of eloquent speech.

      This obviously is an unfortunate result of the writers not speaking above a moderate high school level themselves leaving plotlines uninteresting and dialogue completely boring. The actors/actresses are doing their best with the material given, so I give them props for that.

      As a matter of fact, we have fantastic people on the cast that have come and gone due to writers not giving them the material they deserve.

      Finally, the music today sucks. I understand they're trying to mimc the tone of other TV shows and movies today (there's an entire topic over the death of melody in general pop culture), but B&B was never like anything else at the time it premiered and for the decade after it.

      Someone needs to take hint at this and revive this show to be something more than other soaps on T
      Heeeyyyy, I'm a proud Gen X-er but with all due respect, I think you meant to say Generation Z which comes after Millennials. Im 49 so Im right smack in the middle of the Gen X category and certainly wouldn't consider myself young.

      But yes, as a day one watcher of the show, I totally agree with you!!!
      It has lost ALL class and elegance and the core of what the show is supposed to be - FASHION and stories that revolve around the core family's fashion house - NOT one never-ending triangle from you know where

      Comment


      • prestonrcasey
        prestonrcasey
        Lurking in the Shadows
        prestonrcasey commented
        Editing a comment
        Nah I definitely meant Gen X, lol. I don't know of any Gen Z kids/persons who are remotely interested in soaps. Not to say they don't exist, but it doesn't seem likely.

    • #12
      I realize people don't want to get banned for "bashing" an actor. I just see it as giving an "opinion." Of course, I realize that could get out of hand very quickly, hence the reason for the rules on here. It is my feeling that if a person chooses a profession that is in the public eye then they ought to be able to expect people's opinions on their performance. I see criticism daily on the writing and feel bad for the writers sometimes. Jmo.
      prpnc
      Executive Poster
      Last edited by prpnc; May 7, 2020, 02:24 PM.

      Comment


      • prestonrcasey
        prestonrcasey
        Lurking in the Shadows
        prestonrcasey commented
        Editing a comment
        I'm not sure who or why anyone thinks people will get banned for sharing an opinion.

        I do not believe anyhting I've said is outright bashing anyone, just sharing my distaste for the lack of ambition for new ideas and maintaining the "Bold and Beautiful" in B&B

    • #13
      @prestonrcaseyOf course, we would get banned if we gave our honest opinion about an actor. It all has to be good in that regard, but not opinions about the writing. I was referring to poster who said nobody wants to get banned for bashing an actor.

      Comment


      • NuttyAboutSoaps
        NuttyAboutSoaps
        Senior Board Member
        NuttyAboutSoaps commented
        Editing a comment
        From my experience, it's fairly easy for a thread to get out of hand in a way that the original poster never intended. For example, someone will post something negative about a plot twist. The next person will insult one of the characters and by the time five other people have weighed in, an actor will inevitably have been bashed....when that was NEVER the OP's intention.

        As a result, many posters are playing it VERY safe with their comments because they don't want to say anything that ignites that sort of thing. At least, that's how I feel. It's fun to express my opinion until someone breaks a rule. And, then, the whole thread disappears, including posts that people put a lot of time and thought into.

        I hate it when that happens. LOL

    • #14
      A love triangle is supposed to make viewers wish one suitor over the other to be with the protagonist but instead the Love Triangle from hell made me want Steffy to call Liam out on his despicable behavior so much so that when Hope would lash out at him for betraying her with Steffy I would cheer even though I'm not a Hope fan at all. They basically did the opposite of what a love triangle is supposed to do for the viewers.

      There was a few moments here and there that were enjoyable but for the most part 2012/13 was unbearable, each person on the show got a turn telling Liam who he should be with and everyone on the show would start off talking about something and then end up talking about Liam, Steffy and Hope.

      I stopped watching in 2013 Ron Moss, Susan Flannery, Jacquline Mcinnes Wood, Hunter Tylo and Adam Gregory leaving straight after one another was too much for me. I tuned in here and there throughout the years but never full time again. It's shame because the cast are good.

      Comment


      • #15
        Soaps are a dying genre and they aren’t ever going to be like they used to, it sucks but I think people need to accept it

        Comment


        • prestonrcasey
          prestonrcasey
          Lurking in the Shadows
          prestonrcasey commented
          Editing a comment
          I've accepted this fact actually, I would be surprised if they continued beyond the 2020's

        • NuttyAboutSoaps
          NuttyAboutSoaps
          Senior Board Member
          NuttyAboutSoaps commented
          Editing a comment
          Ironically, the one soap that is likely to emerge from this virus unscathed is the lowest rated one. Days has several months of new episodes in the can, so it is the only choice for a new viewer who wants to jump into a show and see new material. The other three will only have reruns to offer, which bear NO resemblance to the current quality of their shows.

          As I mentioned earlier, I have been watching old clips of one of my original soaps on the unmentionable site. It reminded me, once again, of how good daytime soaps can be. Unfortunately, after reading this thread and seeing the word "millennial" a million times, I don't think that my tastes are aligned with those of the next generation. The soaps I'm seeing today are ALL a shadow of their previous selves, which is extremely sad to those of us who remember the start of this genre. Believe me, for viewers who appreciate a slow burn, genuine chemistry between the actors, and year-long story arcs the unravel like the layers of an onion, the payoff was well worth the investment..

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