Dianne did not say anything new.

[Fightcrab]

I just finished watching the court proceedings (before Sonny testified) when Dianne asked Nina about her knowing who Sonny was and not telling his family. This was already tried in another court and dismissed. So she has nothing new. Whereas Scott asked Nina about Wiley's other grandparents and mentioned the double standard. That was something new.
alexis should've demanded Shmolz to write a similar article on other Wiley's grandparents who were murderers.

[december rose]

The other court case was not about her rights as a grandparent,

In Pa, she was the defendant (guilty beyond a reasonable doubt)] I believe the charge was identity theft.

The facts are the facts but they are applied differently depending on the issue before the Court.

Here she is the petitioner. It is a civil, not criminal case. She is asking the court for relief. So her behavior and competency are very much at issue.

[DayRose]

Both court cases are completely different.

[Remarco]

In the end the justice system is about weasle words and money $$$$ big time, who can afford the best doublespeak lawyer and 'theater Macabre" to a judge/jury who had the better gift of gab.

[believeinme246]

alexis should've demanded Shmolz to write a similar article on other Wiley's grandparents who were murderers.

This would have been a much more balanced article, talking about this visitation battle where all grandparents involved are monsters, but at least Nina doesn't seek out to kill. I suppose that Diane always got the others off so they haven't been convicted although they are all killers or attempted killers.

I suppose that Alexis wouldn't want to mudsling against her daughter's father, although she hid her pregnancy from him for that very reason.

[CarnyQueen]

The situations were vastly different. In Llantano County, Nina was the defendant facing charges in criminal court of identity theft and fraud. The judge dismissed the charges during a preliminary hearing. Although Sonny did testify that he wasn't Nina's victim, what the judge basically said was that the charges filed against Nina didn't apply to this situation. Part of the thing that The Invader article is about is that Nina was able to withhold an amnesiac's identity from the amnesiac and his family for six months, and there's no law under which she can charged (at least in the soap world).

The current hearing is about Nina's petition in family court to be granted visitation with Wiley over the objections of his parents.

So the only question is: Is the benefit to Wiley in seeing his biological grandmother so great that it outweighs his parents' rights to make decisions for him?

And that's where Nina's behavior is at issue.

Not Michael's, not Willow's, not Carly's, not Sonny's, not Harmony's, not dead AJ's, not Frank Brenson's.

The burden is on Nina to prove that time with her is in Wiley's best interests. All his parents have to do is to show why they think it isn't.

[Fightcrab]

She withheld the amnesiac's identity because he did not want to know. Thats why Sonny said he was not Nina's victim. If he was not Nina's victim why Dianne brought it up again in this court.

[CarnyQueen]

Nina did not offer the amnesiac an informed choice. If she had said, "I know who you are, I know that you have a wife, several children including two little girls, and two grandchildren, all of whom are mourning you because they think you are dead" and he said, "I still don't want to know," then that would have been an informed choice. Sonny admitted on the stand under Diane's questioning that if he had been told there was a whole family waiting for him, then he would have wanted to know and he would have gone back to them.

[Manninglover87]

Criminal court and civil court are different. There are different rules. That’s why someone can be found not guilty in a murder trial, but responsible in a wrongful death suit. Diane may not have offered any evidence, but she didn’t have to. All the old stuff was very much relevant.

[Fightcrab]

Not relevant as Sonny said he was not her victim. He did not want to know. Michael just wants a revenge on Nina. He is not doing it for Wiley.

[Manninglover87]

It is relevant because, as Diane pointed out, Sonny was not Nina's only victim. His entire family, including Wiley, were victimized by this woman.

[Fightcrab]

Yes, Michael tried to buy the DA with his money, but failed. The other court looked at Nina's behavior and dismissed all charges. So why bring it up again?. Besides, those charges were bogus.

[Manninglover87]

It doesn’t matter. Family court doesn’t look at things the same way criminal courts do. Something doesn’t have to be a crime for it to be used against you in family court. One court found Nina not legally responsible, but that doesn’t mean a family court judge can’t find her actions morally reprehensible.

[DayRose]

Michael made a legal campaign contribution.

[Fightcrab]

It was a legal loophole for bribing an official. We know he did it only to bring bogus charges against Nina. Luckily he failed.

[AMHardulak]

I thought that by bringing up Nina's choice to not tell Sonny's family that he was alive, Diane was exposing Nina as a person with low standards re: ethics and morals. Perhaps these are not against the law, but also not the best example of what to offer a young grandchild.

[DayRose]

I agree. It shows Nina's character.

[Fightcrab]

But thats what Carly is constantly doing. But she has access to Wiley.

[SAMLEXIS FAN]

I just finished watching the court proceedings (before Sonny testified) when Dianne asked Nina about her knowing who Sonny was and not telling his family. This was already tried in another court and dismissed. So she has nothing new. Whereas Scott asked Nina about Wiley's other grandparents and mentioned the double standard. That was something new.
alexis should've demanded Shmolz to write a similar article on other Wiley's grandparents who were murderers.

I think there's more drama if Michael & Willow are forced to deal with Nina via court ordered visitation as opposed to those two bores winning in court & remaining in their happy boring bubble with Wiley. After all is said & done, Nina will be in her grandson's life so it's all good.

[Rogue]

Most likely she will, but it will be Michaels and Willows choice based on what they think is best and thats the way it should be. I’m certain that once she does get to see Wiley, she won’t be trying her revisionist history about her psycho daughter and it will come with a full and appropriate apology for her offenses against them, if not, then I doubt she’s getting to see Wiley.

[kat401]

I was very disappointed with the court room scenes. Not only was there nothing new, it lacked punch. Sonny came off looking like an a-hole. Nina's "I've just got to do this no matter who I hurt" was insincere. Dianne failed to make the point that Nina's own actions are the reason why her access was cut. Wylie's interests were not well represented.

How did Michael wind up being on trial? His past should have been deemed irrelevant. And not only did they fail to make the case that Nelle was protecting her son from his father, even if they had succeeded that has nothing to do with whether or not Nina should be allowed to see Wylie.

Altogether I give the big showdown a fail. I was not impressed with Carly's jaw dropping that they would bring up Claudia. Nor was I titillated by the fact that her DNA test results are in. It's not like we're going to get a surprise result. Will Carly do the right thing, the smart thing or the stupid thing with her secret knowledge? I think we all know that she will do the plot driven thing and the secret will be dragged on and on until nobody cares anymore.

[Rogue]

Love this, the most interesting thing would be for Willow to know and decide not to say anything.

[parker joe]

I agree----the hearing was pretty much just a recap of what happened in Nixon Falls. What annoys me is that Scott knew Michael's case was built on Nina's lack of character. We should've gotten testimony from other characters (Ava, Sasha, Phyllis, Valentine, whoever) showing she's capable of having healthy relationships and forgiving past wrongs and moving on.

Then Scott should've hammered Michael about how he holds grudges, bought the AG of PA to bring those charges against Nina, and sought to influence the case with the Intruder series. And point out that Michael ONLY offered Nina the visit with Wiley (after she left PC) because Jax blackmailed him with the knowledge he was screwing his best friend's wife. Then SCOTT should've brought up Michael suing for custody of Avery as revenge against Sonny.

I didn't see how the Claudia stuff was relevant at all. Other than pissing off Willow so she'd have another reason to fight her man's battles.

[ValentinFan02]

Rogue the Charlotte bullying situation played out over the course of about a week, not a whole school year. Willow was not fired for that and Nina had nothing to do with her firing. Nina defended Willow at the meeting that was part of a series of events that led to her firing. It was a family who was upset Willow assigned a book with gay couples in it. People here constantly completely make up a narrative that Nina was this awful long time abuser of Willow. They argued a couple of times over Charlotte. Then Nina defended Willow and they were on good terms after that, including them begging Nina to testify against Nelle.

[Eve S Dropper]

ValentinFan02 Nina also overheard Willow's private conversation about putting her baby up for adoption, and leaped up in her face berating her loudly and publicly about what a horrible person she was for doing that, which enabled Shiloh to find out about the baby and go after Willow. Such a sweet caring woman that Nina is.

[ValentinFan02]

eve

Your story is quite the fiction regarding Nina and once again spins into victimizing Willow at all costs.

That scene played out like this....

Willow gets a call and starts running across the ballroom not looking where she's going. She runs right into Nina and knocks Nina's drink all over her. Nina, quite calmly says, "will you please watch where you're going" to which Willow yells at her that she doesn't have to take Nina's crap any more and runs into the hall.

Nina walks out, heading to the restroom to clean herself up as Willow is rather loudly talking about the child she gave away. Once again calmly and actually with care in her voice Nina says "you had a child, you're a mother?"

Willow angrily confronts Nina saying "were you eavesdropping?" Even though Willow is speaking loudly in a public place 10 feet from the door to the nurse's ball. Nina, still calm says "no, no, i.." and Willow cuts her off, her voice rising to a yell, insulting both Nina and Charlotte. Though this is weeks or months after Charlotte's brief behavior problem has been corrected. That finally got to Nina and she said, without raising her voice, "no wonder you can't handle your classroom Ms Tait, you can't even handle your own child, have a nice life." and Nina walks away.

Nina didn't jump in Willows face. She never raised her voice at all. Willow did the yelling and insulting and carelessly knocked Nina's drink all over her.

Willow was there, talking loudly about her child she gave away. Shiloh would have heard it regardless of Nina showing up. Every action in that sequence was Willow's fault and not Nina's.

[parker joe]

Rogue Nina did not "get Willow fired". Willow went to jail for contempt of court when she wouldn't tell Shiloh where their baby was. The school board (which had been going to offer her a contract at the end of the school year) decided the notoriety was too much to deal with.

CarnyQueen Michael made character an issue. He was willing (however grudgingly) to give Harmony a chance inspite of her horrific crimes. (not just moral failings, but actual violations of law). He's a convicted felon. He's had zero problem making people like Sonny, Carly and Jason role models for his son despite them crossing various legal and ethical codes. His reasons for keeping her from establishing a relationship with his son are personal, not out of a concern for his physical safety. All this could be solved with limited, supervised visitation.

[parker joe]

kat401 Nina got ONE chance. She stated factually that Willow was not his mother, and got tossed out on her ear. She was told that Michael would decide if/when she got another visit. It took JAX blackmailing Michael for Nina's next visit (and it's not like Michael reached out or had any intention to before that). Her next visit was before the news that she knew Sonny was alive.

And since then, it has been ON.

[CarnyQueen]

Why should Michael and Willow agree to supervised visitation for Nina, and what makes anyone think Nina would be content with that? Supervised visitation is meant to preserve a parent's relationship with a child and to attempt to repair that relationship. It's not meant for extended family members who have been denied contact by the parents. If one parent has been accused of abusing another, or has been accused of neglecting a child, then supervised visitation is called for until the parent either gets their act together or proves themselves to be unfit for further contact. It doesn't matter whether Michael and Willow have been willing to give other questionable family members a chance with Wiley or if Michael himself has a criminal record -- which was acquired because he saved his baby sister. .And it's not just bout Wiley's physical safety, it's about his emotional well-being with a woman who constantly lies, who said under oath in court that it's fine that she lies, and told a toddler behind his parents' backs whatever she wants him to believe. The only character at issue is Nina's. She made her character an issue because she is asking a court to order that she be able to spend time with a child who is not hers. The burden is on her to prove that the benefit to Wiley of having Nina in his life outweighs the objections of Wiley's parents. And since she was sent to a mental institution for kidnapping Wiley's aunt, that's a relevant issue.

[OLTL'69]

I don't think all grandparents get to go off and take the child alone. It may not be official that they have to have supervised visits, but. people sometimes won't let parents be alone with the grands. Maybe they are concerned about what they feed the kid or what ever The parents do have a right to control these things

[ValentinFan02]

Rogue Nina did not "get Willow fired". Willow went to jail for contempt of court when she wouldn't tell Shiloh where their baby was. The school board (which had been going to offer her a contract at the end of the school year) decided the notoriety was too much to deal with.

CarnyQueen Michael made character an issue. He was willing (however grudgingly) to give Harmony a chance inspite of her horrific crimes. (not just moral failings, but actual violations of law). He's a convicted felon. He's had zero problem making people like Sonny, Carly and Jason role models for his son despite them crossing various legal and ethical codes. His reasons for keeping her from establishing a relationship with his son are personal, not out of a concern for his physical safety. All this could be solved with limited, supervised visitation.

I'd forgotten about the court case leading to Willow's firing. I know the angry parents about the gay couple in the book assignment also played a role. They were tired of all the drama Willow brought to the classroom.

I wish it would come out in court that Michael and Willow's first "marriage" was a sham they perpetrated to fool the court into thinking Michael was a more stable/fit parent, since he stood on equal ground with Nelle at the time in the fact that both were convicted felons for a crime where they killed someone.

[ScrubsFan#1]

Michael and Willow told the judge exactly why they were getting married. They both loved Wiley - and wanted to provide a loving and stable home for him - and to protect him from an unfit mother.

The judge AGREED with them - saw Nelle's lunacy for himself - and granted Michael and Willow custody.

[parker joe]

Yeah, the judge knew both marriages (Jules and Nelle, Michael and Willow) weren't love matches. But they were honest about it, where Nelle just showed up married to Wiley's adoptive Grampa.

[OLTL'69]

I don't think the judge was impressed with either side (esp the fake marriages) But Nelle blew it for herself (if she had any chance)