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Michael definitely made an interesting point(good or bad-right or wrong)!
What are your thoughts ?
What are your thoughts ?
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I think those names got mixed up. I saw Nina demean Willow's role as an adoptive mother by comparing her to Harmony, a kidnapper who lade and committed fraud and ultimately committed murder to cover it up. I also saw Nina flippantly using a situation in which Willow was a victim against her. (Trend much Nina? See also Bobbie)
And I saw Michael make the point to Maxie that biology isn't the only relevant factor when considering who should be around a child. -
Why can't she just have supervised visitation with the golden chil and be done with it.Originally posted by Kristabell View PostComment
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Exactly Kristabell
Geezum, let Nina come have a 1 hour lunch date once a week at your house and save everyone a lot of stress and aggravation. Michael got shot in the head when he was a kid because of Sonny's business. Sonny is arguably more dangerous to Wiley's wellbeing than Nina. Apparently( because we hardly ever saw them together) Michael and Willow had no problem with Wiley seeing Sonny. -
That could be a solution. But it should probably be with a court appointed observer. Less drama, but keep Michael and Willow away,
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Originally posted by rkm137 View Post
If biology isn't the only reason, no way should Carly or Sonny or Jason have been allowed to be around him and even Michael would be a questionable choice himself.Comment
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What has Carly or Michael ever done to make them unfit to be around Wiley? Even Sonny's crimes are "alleged". And why are we bringing Jason into this? Nina has a history of kidnapping a child. Nelle, the biological mother, was a criminal who had her rights terminated. Nina had no relationship with either Nelle or Wiley.
In every court case Grandparent's rights are considered due to the relationship with the child (which would need to be more than a handful of visits where you have pissed of the parents or lied to them) and in the best interests of the child. They are not guaranteed just because you are a biological relation. Especially when the mother had no relationship with the child either. -
Michael went to prison for killing a woman, that Carly and Jason tried to cover up. Carly in the last year alone has committed enough crimes to get a life sentence or two. She kidnapped an old lady and used her for blackmail. She actively ran a mob family and ran a mob war which resulted in multiple deaths and loss of property. She ordered warehouses blown up, endangering any passersby and first responders who had to go to the scene. She's physically assaulted multiple people, including Nina. She's completely corrupt and an irredeemable criminal. Just before Nelle died, she locked Nelle on the roof and left her to freeze to death, then forged her signature so Wiley could have a surgery that even Monica said was elective at the time. -
Michael went to prison because his parents stupidly covered up his role in Claudia's death. It doesn't make him a danger to women or children, it makes him a son who was protecting his Mother and newborn sister.
Whatever your opinion of Carly, she is not relevant to this case. This is between Nina and Michael / Willow. I think Nina loses here.
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Michael made a great point. I know we need to go through all this for the drama but if Nina had been quiet and polite, she would have had access to Wiley within a year. I hate the blind loyalty that Nina gets from Maxie.Comment
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I loved the writing today.
Michael made a great point to Maxie...and Maxie had no response.
Brad made a great point to Carly...and Carly didn't have a viable response.
Dante gave Sonny some hard truths.
I loved it ALLComment
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Michael went too far comparing Nina to Peter. Yes I understand his point that had Peter lived he would have parental rights to Bailey . But he is implying that Nina is on equal terms the guy who has kidnapped, tortured and murdered multiple people and he said it to Maxie, the woman Peter abused and terrorized.
Nina went too far bringing up Harmony to Willow, as well. Harmony allowed Willow to be raped, lied to her about her parentage, murdered two people to keep the secret and died attempting to murder two more.
I hate Michael, Nina and now Willow . I wish they could all lose . I want Wiley shipped
off to boarding school until he’s eighteen and then want nothing to do with the sneering , hissing, perfectly awful family he got stuck with.
I did like Maxie today .Comment
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Michael got a standing O for me.
Nina is an obsessive psychopath just like Peter was.
She's just better at playing victim - and having HER victims and enablers eating out of her hand.
Both are sickening to watch. -
The word psychopath is thrown around way too easily. Nina does not fit the definition no matter how much she may be hated.
If she does fit the definition, then let’s throw in Sonny, Carly, Not dead Jason, and every other bad guy that is in this town. -
Michael was indeed very calm and made sense. Maxie decided that Peter wasn't fit to be near his biological daughter. She didn't go to the courts -- she filed fake police reports and claimed her daughter had been kidnapped and wasted a lot of law enforcement time and money. But she's heralded as a hero for protecting her daughter. Sometimes a biological relative shouldn't be allowed access to a parent.
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I love Maxie, but when she's around Nina she is unwatchable and irritating. Maxie is a hypocrite if she's really going way the, "Biology matters" argument.
For starters, I've still yet to see a single DNA test verifying that Nina is in fact Nelle's mother. Meanwhile, it was that so called biology that led Michael and Willow to reach out to Nina in the first place. Nina is the one who disrespected Michael and Willow's authority and wishes as Wiley's parents and told him things she was specifically asked not to mention. And then when confronted, she didn't apologize and take responsibility, she made excuses, clearly indicating she didn't care what they wanted and would continue to undermine them with their son. And yet still they gave her a SECOND chance and she went to their home, set with them for hours, played with their son, and LIED TO THEIR FACES.
How many times does Nina have to prove that she is untrustworthy and possibly even dangerous before Michael and Willow are allowed to decide they don't want someone they can't trust around their son?
Nina has already been forgiven of so much and yet she keeps making the same or similar mistakes over and over again. What irreplaceable value does Nina have to Wiley's life that is oh so important for her to fulfil now, but wasn't a year ago when she was pretending not to know who Sonny really was and hiding out with him in Nixon Falls?Comment
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As the father, Michael is entitled to make decisions other people may find questionable. If someone felt those choices were actively dangerous, they always have the right to notify CPS. But otherwise it's none of anyone else's decision except Willows.Originally posted by ValentinFan02 View Post
Likewise, if Michael does not want someone around his son and that person does not, at minimum, have a legal established right to contact with that child then what Michael says goes. The only person with the legal right to contravene him is Willow. A person does not have to be a bad influence in the sense of will cause actual demonstrative harm. They just have to cross your boundaries/rules/etc.
For instance, say I and my partner parent are atheists. My child's deceased father's parents are devoutly Christian and they come to my home knowing my stance on religion and still proceed to bring out a children's bible and read it to my child. I object and tell the grandparents I don't want them to see my child anymore and they file a lawsuit alleging that they have the right to see my child and believe that not "exposing" them to religion will hurt them as they age so will continue to, at minimum, discuss the option over my objections.
I doubt you'll even find that many atheist judges let alone judges who think teaching a child religion is inherently wrong or harmful. But I as the parent have the right to determine if, when, and how to introduce religion(s) to my child. And I am entitled to exclude someone from their life if that person refuses the boundaries I've set or otherwise threatens the stability of our home.
Nina has repeatedly shown that she disregards any rules, boundaries, or mores she personally dislikes or disagrees with. Michael and Willow have a right to be concerned and her behavior when they asked her to back off keeps reinforcing their positions.Comment
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maybe after she murders some people like mikey already has...Originally posted by Kristabell View PostComment
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She only hasn't murdered someone because she failed. She planned to murder Kiki, she left Ava paralyzed and bleeding on the floor to die, and she thought she killed Cassandra who was given a miraculous resurrection a year later.
Michael killed Claudia to save his mother and new born sister. -
Michael hasn’t murdered anyone. He killed someone to protect his sister. He only went to prison because of the coverup. -
rkm137 let’s not for get her murder for hire plan of Peter with Aunt Liesel that failed miserably causing more chaos and death. The writers tried to fix this part by making it seem like she was protecting James when she was really just protecting her secret with relationship with Smike.
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The key sections of the NY State law regarding grandparents rights.
"The acrimonious relationship between grandparents and the child’s parents is not a sufficient basis upon which the Court determines whether or not visitation with the grandparents is in the child's best interests."
And a grandparent may petition the court if the following applies.
"the child's parents have interfered with their efforts to establish or maintain a relationship."
This is clearly a case there Michael and Carly were mad at Nina and that's why they are denying her Wiley. That's why they should lose in court.Comment
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I see it differently. I don't think she's using Wiley as a Nelle substitute, I see her having a love of family. She was also caught off guard with a direct question by a child and gave a direct answer. She didn't mention Nelle. She answered the question about relationship by saying that she's the mommy of his birth mommy. Nothing horrible and nothing showing lack of respect. I'm much more concerned about what other children will say to Wiley when they haven't been given this direction. Will Millow pull Wiley from playdates, from school, from family events, where another child might talk? Make his grandmother part of the solution. (of course now they know about NF, but didn't at that time). -
believeinme246 Nina didn't "answer a child's question." We saw her react to Willow being referred to as Mommy. And then, literally the second Michael and Carly also left the room and Nina was alone with Wiley, SHE brought up the topic. In fact we never saw Wiley ask a question at all. We saw Nina tell him, "I'm your grandma but I'm not your mommy Willow's mom." Right there, she brought up the topic (which Wiley did not seem remotely curious about) and introduced the idea of his Willow's status being qualified as Mommy Willow rather than just mommy.
ValentinFan02 It's not just anger and acrimony. Carly was angry with Nina when Michael and Willow first chose to allow Nina contact. Michael and Willow cut off the contact because Nina grossly overstepped in a way that undermined them as parents and was clearly too emotional to be trusted not to act first and think later. They cut her off again after she lied to them about Sonny for months not to mention that creating a whole life with "Mike" again showed her to be unstable. Nina isn't just Sonny's other woman. She is a woman who had demonstrated repeatedly that when she wants something she will justify it other people be damned. She has almost no impulse control and does whatever she wants in the moment and disregards any rules or boundaries she doesn't like or that inconvenience her. -
Great posts ValentinFan02 and believeinme246 !! I couldn’t agree more with you both!
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That comment from Michael to Maxie went way too far. She should have reminded him what he has in common with Peter i.e. they are both murders.Comment
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Michael is not a murderer. He killed to protect someone he loved, who was in immediate danger, which is not murder. -
do you want to compare Maxie's crimes to Michael's too??
Maxie
Stole a bottle of pills from General Hospital [Aug 2003]
Aided and abetted fugitive Zander Smith [Jan 2004 to Feb 2004]
Attempted to steal a bottle of pills for an ailing Zander [Feb 3, 2004]
Went on the run with Jesse Beaudry when he was wanted [2005]
Stole drugs from General Hospital for Lucky's drug habit [Summer 2006]
Bought drugs for Lucky Spencer [Summer 2006]
Helped hide Cooper Barrett from the police after Metro Court hostage incident [Spring 2007]
Made sure Cooper's application would be accepted by the PCPD [Summer 2007]
Considered a suspect in the murder of Lisa Niles [Nov 2011]
Convinced Anthony Zacchara to have First Mate Briggs confess to the murder of Lisa Niles [Dec 2011]
Confessed to the murder of Lisa Niles and Officer Briggs [Mar 2012]
Sentenced to 20 years in Pentonville without parole for the murders of Lisa Niles and Officer Briggs (although she privately admitted to Spinelli that Matt had actually killed Lisa Niles) [May 1, 2012; Released from prison on May 29, 2012 when Matt was charged with the crime]
Did not tell Lulu Spencer and Dante Falconeri that she miscarried their biological child then tried to pass off her own child fathered by Spinelli as Dante and Lulu's [Jan-Oct 2013]
Violated a court order to have no contact with her daughter; not charged [Dec 2013]
Stabbed and killed Levi Dunkleman [Sep 15, 2014]
Michael
Attempted to kill A.J. Quartermaine by smothering him with a pillow [Apr 2005]
Bought bullets and a gun [2008]
Accidentally shot Kate Howard [2008]
Ran away from home [2008]
Underage drinking [Jun 2009]
Bar fight [Jun 2009]
Driving without a license [Jul 2009]
Murdered Claudia Zacchara with an axe [Nov 4, 2009]
Questioned in the murder of Abby's ex-boyfriend, Brandon; never charged, innocent [Apr 2011]
Punched a classmate at his graduation ceremony [Jun 2011]
Shot and killed a hired thug named Kobe during a struggle for a gun [Sep 30, 2014]
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Michael was out of line. He compared a murderous father with CUSTODIAL rights to a woman who hasn't committed a crime (no matter how morally questionable her behavior) petitioning for VISITATION with her grandson.
Maxie should've kneed him in the babymaker.Comment
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oh yeah.....
Shoved her mother down a flight of stairs as a child [revealed Oct 16, 2014]
Broke into the apartment of Silas Clay [break-in occurred Mar 25, 2014; revealed Jun 20, 2014]
Fraud; feigned being paralyzed [Jun 2014 to Oct 2014]
Blackmailed Rosalie Martinez to be her accomplice [Jun 2014 to Oct 2014]
Slapped a physical therapist [Jun 30, 2014]
Bribed a physical therapist to pretend that she required the use of a wheelchair [Jun 30, 2014]
Aided and abetted Rafe Kovich in evading the police [Jul 2, 2014]
Drugged Silas Clay with an unknown prescription medication supplied by Nina's nurse Rosalie [Jul 25, 2014]
Bashed Silas Clay on the head and knocked him out [Oct 16, 2014]
Slapped Madeline Reeves [Oct 29, 2014]
Broke into a waterfront property [Oct 31, 2014]
Injected Ava Jerome with a paralytic substance [Oct 31, 2014]
Injected Ava Jerome with a substance to induce labor [Nov 3, 2014 (Oct 31, 2014 on the show)]
Delivered and kidnapped Avery Jerome Corinthos [Nov 5, 2014 (Oct 31, 2014 on the show)]
Knocked Madeline Reeves unconscious with a lamp [Nov 10, 2014]
Evaded the police [Oct 31, 2014 to Dec 12, 2014]
Framed by Madeline Reeves for the murder of Silas Clay [Aug 24, 2015]
Covered up her role in Cassandra Pierce's overdose that left Cassandra in a persistent coma [Jan 3 and 4, 2018; revealed Jan 10, 2018]
Aiding and abetting; Didn't report Liesl Obrecht to the authorities for abducting Peter August [Jun 11, 2018]
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One thing that's so weird to me about Nina's supporters is that none of them seem conflicted. Maxie is really the biggest head scratcher, although Phyllis ("your lies nearly got me burned to death, but let me hold your hand while you whine") is another one.
But take Maxie: Yes, she is Nina's sister-in-law and Nina is family to Maxie.
But Maxie knows the dark side of Nina.
She knows that Nina was so determined to co-opt another woman's child that she did everything she could to block Lulu from Charlotte. To the point where Nina fired Maxie for trying to let Lulu see Charlotte. Maxie was fired for months, and Nina -- the clueless woman who only succeeded at Crimson because Maxie taught her the ropes -- made Maxie grovel to get her job back.
As Lulu's BFF, Maxie surely must know about how Nina encouraged Charlotte's bad behavior and obstructed Lulu's efforts to get to the root of the problem.
Maxie knows that Nina has struggled with mental illness, which culminated in the forced premature birth and kidnapping of Avery.
Maxie knows the Nelle history, knows that Nelle tried to kill Michael, made Michael think that his child was dead for 18 months, and tried to kill Maxie's new BFF Brook Lynn.
Maxie has known Michael for decades and she likes him. She knows Carly, who was kind enough to let Maxie organize her wedding to Jason when Maxie begged her to give her something to do.
Maxie also knows that Nina, when Peter showed up in Nixon Falls, didn't tell the authorities or warn Maxie herself. All of the ensuing drama with Peter -- including the death of Jason, whom Maxie also liked -- might have been avoided if Nina had only called 911 Infuriatingly, Maxie hasn't been allowed to blame Nina for that.
So why isn't Maxie more conflicted? When she asked Nina if a compromise could be reached, why didn't she ask Nina what Nina had offered to do in order to reach a compromise?
In a town where everyone knows everyone else's business and where so many residents are supposed to be "gray," why are so many people not at least asking about the other side of the issue?
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Maxie doesn't judge and isn't conflicted by her own admission because she has mad very big mistakes and done terrible things In her own right and therfore it isn't her right to judge but accept a person regardless of their past and history up until Peter lied, killed people and threatened to take the baby from her and kidnap her all because it turned out that Anna wasn't his biological mother and everything he believed that was good in him because of her being
his mother suddenly wasn't true! -
What's funny is that when speaking of others, male career criminals who have multiple murders under their belts, the same people who say Nina should have zero family or friends who love her, declare that said career criminals SHOULD have family, friends, and everyone else in town worship them. Funny how that works, isn't it?
Perhaps Nina should have joined the mob, then she'd be a 'good guy'.
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Michael is right. Peter hadn't been convicted of anything. He was at best a wanted fugitive and in this country, rapist have legal rights to the children conceived in their sexual assaults. So surely even Peter, even if just temporarily, would've been entitled to see Bailey whenever he wanted regardless of Maxie's feelings.
Biology alone doesn't make a family and the idea that anyone with a claim to a child should be allowed to see them is preposterous. Especially when said person has already been given many chances and on their own chose to squander them.
What Maxie and all of Nina's enablers aren't mentioning as they talk of compromise is that Nina is the one who did this to herself. That Michael and Willow reasonably and generously reached out to Nina FIRST and more than once and it was NINA who took advantage of their trust and disrespected them. Even before she spent the better part of a year lying about Sonny, she deliberately went behind Michael and Willow's backs and told Wiley something she was SPECFICIALLY told not to mention. And what's worse, she did it on purpose.
It didn't just happen, or slip out, nor did Wiley just happen to overhear them when they were talking about it, no Nina spitefully did what she was asked not to do because at the end of the day, Nina only cares about Nina. How Wiley would feel, or be unable to process and understand that information, how Michael and Willow would feel, or what if anything they had planned to explain to Wiley about Nelle, was completely immaterial to Nina. And then when she got caught, instead of admitting she did it and that it was wrong, she made excuses and tried to justify it. She played the victim even though she was the one who caused harm.
Even now Nina refuses to acknowledge she's done that makes it so hard for them to trust her. She acts like they just need to get over her lies and schemes because no one is perfect. The fact she caused real harm or broke their trust is of no concern to her.Comment
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