Dear Nina, Carly isn't the one deciding whether you see Wiley.

[rkm137]

Carly was (rightly) worried about Nina being with Wiley due to her emotional state when it was first discovered Nina is (maybe) his grandmother. But she has never once made the decision one way or another as to whether Nina was permitted time with Wiley. Carly's position hasn't changes and, by all accounts, hasn't been the deciding fact once one way or the other.

Each time Willow and Michael have decided to end contact, it was their own reactions to what Nina did. We haven't even seen Carly mention it. So Nina blaming Carly is just more blame shifting on her part.

[RoccoG1996]

Technically Carly’s influence has a lot to do with it. Regardless of how Nina handle things she shouldn’t be denied her rights visiting Wiley. She’s no threat to him, all she did was have an affair with a married man, that is not a crime.

Nina get so much hate more than the crime boss and his mob wife when they are just as worse than Nina.

[KateQ22003]

How can Carly have more say than we know? Did we miss something, or are there scenes you've seen that we haven't? The last scenes we have had about the visitation issue have been Willow and Michael only; there is no indication Carly is aware or what's going on.

[Manninglover87]

Actually, her influence had nothing to do with it. In fact, Michael and Willow completely ignored Carly’s advice regarding Nina.. They didn’t change their minds until Nina began to negatively impact their son. It was Nina’s actions alone that cost her time with Wiley.

[AMK]

Michael and Willow ignored Carly's advice and let Nina spend time with Wiley, but Nina mess that up for herself. Just because Carly hates Nina, that doesn't mean that she's the blame for Nina's actions that showed Michael and Willow she can't be trusted. Since there's so much problems between Michael, Carly, and Nina, Wiley shouldn't be around all that hatred that Nina actually caused. Nina played God and tried to keep Wiley and his grandfather away from each other and she cut out her time with Wiley completely to do this, then everyone else should play God with Nina and keep her away from Wiley, obviously, she didn't care much about Wiley in NFs, I doubt she cares much about him now; she just wants to take away what she thinks she has rights to even if she doesn't really want it. This woman is really toxic to Carly and her family and, sorry to say, should be put down like a dog because soon when she moves in with Sonny (I believe she will), she'll be wanting Carly's daughter Donna; she needs to be stopped now.

[SAMLEXIS FAN]

Carly never wanted to share Wiley with Nina. Her facial expression said it all....when she was standing outside Nina's office looking at Wiley sitting on Nina's lap...Michael & Willow standing beside Nina. They were all having a good time & Carly couldn't stand it. So she barged into Nina's office & said something about it being Wiley's bedtime & she hurried Michael, Willow & Wiley out the door so she could get in Nina's face & bully her. Carly also refers to Wiley as "my grandson" as opposed to "our grandson" which speaks volumes as to what type of selfish parasite she is.

And, of course, Ava was right about Carly pulling the strings with Michael because that's exactly what she did. Every chance she got, she told Michael to keep Nina away from Wiley. And then that piece of garbage wants everyone to believe it's up to Michael & Willow who sees Wiley...um, not when you're sticking your nose & putting your two cents every time.

[OLTLBoomer]

and then MIchael quit listening to her on many things: how to raise Wylie, Sasha, etc. Michael is now standing up to Carly, except when Carly's prognosications are proven right by NIna's behavior. Carly knows and has commented that MIchael does not listen to her any more.

[Ribbonette]

Yes - this started a long time ago, well before NF. Carly always had an issue with them having a relationship and kept trying to manipulate Nina from seeing Wiley. Really makes you wonder if Carly had been straight up with Nina about Nelle, and tried to cultivate a relationship where they would be now. Carly's desire to control everything set this in motion. Granted made her own bad decisions instead of taking the higher road, but she'd probably be no worse off than she is now.

[browneyes14]

It is a soap so I know that we can't judge people to real world examples but there is no way I would allow Nina by my child after all the hurt she pull on that family. Being uncomfortable with her cheating is one thing but she knowing deceived the entire family and hurt Michael and Wiley by letting them grieve. She also hasn't shown real remorse. She wasn't very interested in a Wiley when they did allow her to visit she choose to stay in NF. There is no justification for what she put Sonny's children through.

[DayRose]

There is no reason why Nina should be allowed to see Wiley. At his young age his parents have to use their discretion on who is allowed to see him. If Wiley was my son Nina wouldn't be allowed to see him. She is clearly unfit.

[JackieChan]

Nina willingly chose to forgo seeing Wiley all summer. She’s not entitled to anything. She’s a pathetic woman with low self esteem which is why she blames Carly for everything that’s gone wrong in her life. It’s sad.

[Retiredmom]

Technically Carly’s influence has a lot to do with it. Regardless of how Nina handle things she shouldn’t be denied her rights visiting Wiley. She’s no threat to him, all she did was have an affair with a married man, that is not a crime.

Nina get so much hate more than the crime boss and his mob wife when they are just as worse than Nina.

All she did was keep a man from his children and grandson for almost a an entire year!!!! That is a little more than an affair. This is all on Nina Michael has made a couple of comments about Him having to console his sisters and how devastated his little sisters went through so much pain.
that is why Michael has an issue has nothing to do with Carly

[JaySherman]

Sonny shares blame for this. He knew he had a life before Nixon Falls and repeatedly told others he didn't want to investigate his past. While he had amnesia, it wasn't "brain damage" in the sense that he still knew right from wrong and could make his own decisions. Had he not come across Lenny and Gladys he would still be self sufficient. He was fully functional except for the missing part of his memory.

[rkm137]

JaySherman I disagree on two points. First,Sonny initially wanted to know who he was. Even when Nina arrived in NF, he still wanted to to know but also expressed some ambivalence due to his creeping worry based on his misinterpretation of the absence of reporting him missing as evidence as, despite having a wedding ring, no one was looking for him of wanted him to return coupled with some concern of the skills he seemed to have.

So it isn't accurate to say that Sonny didn't want to know. He didn't become firm on that opinion until months into Nina being around.

And more importantly, to the extent that he didn't want to know, whether in ambivalence or later certainty, it was based on a belief Nina KNEW TO BE UNTRUE. Sonny made it clear that he was worried about who he'd previously been if his family wasn't even looking for him. She chose to only hear the part where he said he must have been a bad person and ignore the part that he felt like he had no family who loved or wanted him around.

So, while I agree that amnesia is not brain damage, at least no in the competence sense. Sonny was operating with incorrect information which Nina had the ability to correct. She chose to allow him to think he was unwanted and unloved rather than birtst her stupid fantasy bubble.

[Ribbonette]

Nina withheld information - no debate there. But Sonny was being stubborn Sonny. Even when Jax told him that he had a family who loved him, he told Jax to go pound sand.

[SAMLEXIS FAN]

There is no reason why Nina should be allowed to see Wiley. At his young age his parents have to use their discretion on who is allowed to see him. If Wiley was my son Nina wouldn't be allowed to see him. She is clearly unfit.

Obviously, he's so called parents are fine with Wiley being around grandpa mobster & grandma mob boss wannabe who pose a great threat to Wiley. Heck, their loved ones have been kidnapped, shot at & blown up. So their discretion doesn't hold much weight since they allow those who embrace the mob lifestyle & need bodyguards because of the ongoing danger around Wiley.

Michael & Willow don't care about Wiley other than to use him as a weapon against Nina. They're dumb as rocks for not realizing the one they're punishing is Wiley for keeping his grandma away from him.

[SAMLEXIS FAN]

AnotherSonnyKid If Michael allows his father to be around his son, I don't see why Nina can't be even if they become a couple. Michael never banned Sonny, Carly & Jason from his son's life even though they pose a greater threat to him. I take it Wiley is close to his grandma Nina since he ran straight into her arms when he & Willow ran into her shopping. So, yeah, he would be affected by not having his grandmother in his life. Donna was an infant when Sonny left so she wouldn't be affected. And someone needs to tell Avery her daddy the mobster decided to leave her & the rest of the family to go gunning after her uncle Julian which led to the bridge collapse & his memory loss.

[MYA]

rkm137 "I assume you'll advocate for Sonny *and* Nina to be excluded from Wiley's life as soon as they become a couple, yes?" & " Side note: Carly isn't a mob boss or even married to one any longer." Mike Drop??

I think the answer is Michael, Willow, and Carly will all be villainized for being mean to Sonny and his Groomer. Sonny's past and his current profession won't matter, because Carly kidnapped a gangster's mother as leverage to protect her family when Sonny was dead. She wasn't nice to Ava the woman who sent her son spiraling to his death, Carly was mean to Sam the woman who slept with her husband years ago despite being friends now, she didn't tell the world Jax kidnapped Spencer, she kept custody of her son and didn't share him with the Q's, she didn't fess up that the Groomer had a psychotic mini-me while ignoring even after the mini spent years torturing her, she still tried to save her miserable life, and let's not forget Michael and Willow had sex behind chase's back so they no longer deserve to decide who can be around their kid. And Michael is the big ole momma's boy, that never listens to his mother and ends up getting burned, but that won't stop the Groomer from saying it is Carly making her look bad.

[kat401]

SAMLEXIS FAN is using the appeal to hypocracy Logical Fallacy to defend Nina's right to see Wylie. also know as Tu Quoque. Like all logical fallacies, it proves nothing

[SAMLEXIS FAN]

All she did was keep a man from his children and grandson for almost a an entire year!!!! That is a little more than an affair. This is all on Nina Michael has made a couple of comments about Him having to console his sisters and how devastated his little sisters went through so much pain.
that is why Michael has an issue has nothing to do with Carly

The man had amnesia which had nothing to do with Nina. That's what kept him away from his family since he had no memory of them. Nina telling him who he is wouldn't have made a difference. it took a beam to fall on his head for him to regain his memory. And perhaps Avery should find out her daddy the mobster chose to leave her & the rest of the family to go gunning after her uncle Julian which led to the bridge collapse & memory loss.

[DayRose]

Sonny didn't go after Julian to kill him. He wanted Julian to testify against Cyrus. It was all about Cyrus.

[SAMLEXIS FAN]

And if Julian wouldn't have cooperated with Sonny, Sonny was ready to kill him.

[SAMLEXIS FAN]

Nina willingly chose to forgo seeing Wiley all summer. She’s not entitled to anything. She’s a pathetic woman with low self esteem which is why she blames Carly for everything that’s gone wrong in her life. It’s sad.

Michael banned Nina from seeing Wiley. It took Jax's blackmail to force Michael to make contact with Nina about seeing Wiley again. That's when Nina left Nixon Falls & went back to Port Charles. Nina loves her grandson. She spent time with him at the Q mansion, the gatehouse, brought him gits & took him swimming. Carly has no use for her grandson other than to use him as a weapon against Nina.

[Lisa58]

SAMLEXIS FAN
Michael banned Nina from seeing Wiley. It took Jax's blackmail to force Michael to make contact with Nina about seeing Wiley again. That's when Nina left Nixon Falls & went back to Port Charles. Nina loves her grandson. She spent time with him at the Q mansion, the gatehouse, brought him gits & took him swimming. Carly has no use for her grandson other than to use him as a weapon against Nina.
JackieChan
Nina willingly chose to forgo seeing Wiley all summer.

SAMLEXIS FAN Wiley didn't run up to Sonny & Carly when they came upon the scene; he only ran into Nina's arms when he saw her. She came to visit him at the Qs, the gatehouse, brought him gifts & also took him swimming. Wiley knows Nina as his grandmother & he loves her.
Didn’t Nina tell Wiley (very quietly) that Willow wasn’t his real mother? Remember that? What middle aged grown woman would tell a toddler something like that when she is already on thin ice AND actually thinking that a TODDLER even knows what that means? Of course, for effect they played it like Wiley did understand what Nina said. So again…”Why should Michael and Willow be so cautious about Nina being around Wiley?” Then all of the time that Sonny was in NF, how many times did Nina take advantage of the visitation that she DID have with Wiley???? How many? 1x, 2x, 3x? They were in NF at the same time for what, 6 mos? That doesn’t even come close to a g-ma that “loves her grandbaby so much, Actually it’s almost like Nina can’t focus on more than one thing at a time. So Nina buys him all kinds of gifts…..you can’t buy “love.” Maybe making the attempt to see Wiley on a regular basis, when she had ted the chance where she could form a solid relationship with Wiley…oh, no that wouldn’t work because she would be facing Michael and Willow or just one of them at a time each time that she was there visiting. Now THAT would be too difficult. I mean going and seeing Sonny’s son and grandson. Michael grieving Sonny’s death and loss and Wiley not seeing Sonny anymore. Maybe just maybe, Nina couldn’t bring herself to face them all of those times and just chose to “not visit Wiley.”

“Carly has no use for her grandson other than to use him as a weapon against Nina?” What a bunch of bull. Wiley is Michael’s son and Carley totally loves her 1st born. There would be no reason why she wouldn’t love Wiley. Only someone as twisted as Nell could be excused of that with any validity. I suppose that it just sounded good making the accusation though…even though it is ludicrous.

Oh and you were right about one thing....Nina "used Jax" to be able to see Wiley, just like she is "using" Sonny now. In other words "the damsel in distress" "uses" her latest "knight in shining armor" to fight her battles for her and then kicks them to the curb when she has no more use for them.

[SAMLEXIS FAN]

Lisa58 Nina didn't use Jax. She didn't know anything about Jax blackmailing Michael to force him to let her see Wiley. Jax did it because he thought it would convince Nina to take him back. Jax was in a relationship with Nina & he betrayed her in the worst possible way...by putting Carly first. So, no surprise, she kicked his loser butt to the curb for good. As far as Sonny goes, obviously he has no problem with Nina. He gets where she's coming from. He enjoys her company. He has deep feelings for her so it's all good.

[Lisa58]

SAMLEXIS FAN Oh so Nina doesn't "cry on their shoulders" she is having problems with concerning Wiley...?

She gets so mad at Jax "because he went to Carly 1st?" Well Jax and Carly have a child together. There is a long history between them and face it, most any man would place a great deal of importance on their child's mother's welfare since it affects the welfare and happiness of their child...and that doesn't even cover the depth of friendship that Jax and Carly still have. Nina wouldn't understand that because if somebody doesn't act the way that she wants them to act and in any way shape or form, (in her eyes) betrays her, she just kicks them to the curb. She has ZERO TOLERANCE for any kind of dishonesty, even if just by omission. But then Nina can bald face OMIT that Sonny is alive to all of his family, including his grandson Wiley and expect to retain "her rights" as though nothing happened. There is a word for this, it is HYPOCRITE. Nina lives by 2 sets of rules....1 set for herself and then the other for everybody else. Lying by omission should come with no real repercussions. Really? For a better part of a year she "lied by omission" to a lot of people and she didn't even see Wiley but for a couple of times during all of that time.

Nina does everything at her convenience...whatever is important to her at the moment. Apparently Wiley wasn't all that important back then but now that he is CONVENIENTLY accessible she DEMANDING her rights.

As far as Sonny, Sonny isn't acting like himself, PERIOD. Something is wrong with him. He is out of character or he had a personality transplant.

Since he came back he's been just about ...or actually begging Carly to be with him. As far as I remember...he hasn't begged Nina at all. She just 'so happens to be or show up where ever he so happens to be. So in essence their meetings were not initiated by Sonny but at least some of them were initiated by Nina.

Now she has seen some of the "Sonny" side in Mike and it is driving her away and making her think that maybe having a relationship with Sonny "isn't" such a good idea. It's too bad that she is so dim witted that she didn't realize that building a relationship with a person who had amnesia meant that she was building something with someone who didn't really even exist. I mean what did she ever think that a future with a man who had amnesia would be? Her life in PC and a man that has amnesia but who Nina totally knows who he is. Nina the owner and exec. of a corporation (and grandmother at least for a little while longer) to Mike/Sonny's grandson in PC. How was that EVER going to be a long term sustainable relationship? It all was so ludicrous on Nina's part for sure. I don't know how any "intelligent" person would do something like that unless they were stupid, doing it for reasons other than honestly thinking that the relationship would be genuine or doing it to get back at Carly.... I go with stupid. I think that she was pretty desperate for something in her life that she wasn't getting but needed and unfortunately her "grandson" Wiley wasn't enough for that.

So being a homewrecker was at least part of it but now that she is starting to experience Sonny's complexities he is looking less like a person that she want s to be involved with.

Sonny can go and be with Nina...she is (if she wants him). Nina is and was always 2nd choice. She is the typical woman predator. Although she had some help to start..a man, a victim that had amnesia and that is pathetic.

[QStan0710]

Sorry, but Carly's strong influence over Michael has played a key role in Nina being banned from Wiley's life.

[sesca]

Yes, we have seen it over and over.

[MYA]

Absolutely revisionist history! Michael has never listened to Carly as a child or an adult, had he listened then Wiley wouldn't exist

[rkm137]

MYA Thank you. I point this out all the time, that Michael has never done what his mother wanted. Actually, a lot of times, it was played for laughs between Michael and Jason that Carly can be over the top and they would jointly roll their eyes.

[tarheel715]

THIS is what I hate about Nina. Nothing, according to Nina is ever her fault. And while she pretends to understand what she did is wrong, she clearly proves that she doesn't actually understand or care when she repeatedly refuses to take responsibility, or connect her actions to the consequences of the choices she makes.

Michael isn't uninterested in Nina having a relationship with his son because Carly forced him. Michael and Willow don't trust Nina because she has proven herself repeatedly to be untrustworthy. IF Carly had the power to force Michael to keep Wiley from Nina, Nina would've NEVER had the visit she got with Wiley at the Quartermaines in the first place. The visit where Nina, proving Carly right in every way possible, told a two year old child she barely knew herself, that the ONLY mother he has ever known, wasn't his mommy. NINA did that all on her own.

Any other stable, rational adult would've realized that was NOT the thing to say to a toddler, especially one they barely knew and barely knew them. And they especially would've realized that what and when Wiley was told about Nelle was for his PARENTS to decide, not the grandmother who barely knows him and didn't even know Nelle was her daughter when she was still alive.

Nina all on her own, without any assistance from Carly PROVED that she was reckless, thoughtless, immature, and emotionally unstable to spend time with Wiley. She did that. And Nina blaming Carly for the consequences of her own actions is just further proof of why it's a bad idea for her to be around Wiley. Not only is Nina not someone who can be trusted, she has no interest in taking ownership for her choices, and their consequences. According to her she's a victim and absolutely blameless. She's had no hand in anything and everyone is being unfair to her.

[rkm137]

I will say it again. No matter what you think of how bad Sonny is (agree) or Carly's possible influence on Michael and(?) Willow (debatable) or how much you think Nina (maybe) DNA entitles her to Wiley (gag), none of it has any baring on the topic of this thread.

No matter what you think of Michael's choices or Carly's possible influence on those choices, Michael ? Is ? An ? Adult ? And ? Made ?The ? Choices ? Same goes for Willow. And each time Willow and Michael have cut Nina off it is has been following something sh*tty she did, not a conversation with Carly.

So Nina blaming Carly is just more of Nina attempting to paint herself as a victim and Carly as the villain who is ruining her life. Classic narcissistic projection. In such case, I guess Nina and Sonny are perfect for one another... at least until the selfishness and narcissism are at cross purposes anyway.

[barneysms]

Nina like Nelle seem to think that everything is Carly's fault. And that everyone does what Carly wants, that they can't think for themselves.

[SAMLEXIS FAN]

Nina wouldn't have had to go to great lengths for anything if Carly had been honest with her about her daughter from the get go. At least Nina called Carly to let her know Sonny is alive when she saw him at the Tan-O. Carly wanted to keep Nina in the dark about her daughter forever. And by doing that, Nina would never know about her grandson.

[rkm137]

Nina didn't *have* to go to any lengths. Nina chose to go to those lengths for her own selfish reasons. Setting aside that she was gaslighting the man who just took a bullet for her to continue keeping a man from his family all of which was harm done to people other than Carly, Nina *chose* revenge. It wasn't forced upon her.

[AMK]

Nina could have told Michael, Dante, Kristina, Olivia, etc., there were plenty of people that loved Sonny, but she decided to get revenge instead. Nina didn't know then and still doesn't know that Sonny knew about Nelle and yet her revenge hurt him as well - she hurt an innocent man by keeping him in the dark about who he was - both Nina and Sonny were Wiley's grandparents, so she was like family and this is what she did to him. Her problem was with Carly, not Sonny and his kids and yet she used Sonny to hurt them in order to hurt Carly. She wanted a relationship with Wiley and didn't care about Sonny's relationship with Wiley and then was willing to cut Wiley out of her and Sonny's life indefinitely - that's not love, that is total selfishness.

[AnotherSonnyKid]

Nina suffers from the same mental illness Nelle did; tblame everything on Carly syndrome. There seems to be sadly no cure for it.

Nina was allowed to see Wiley however she chose to only visit him once or twice as she was too busy in NF. During a visit she decided to act like an idiot and that is what got her the boot. Then Michael found out she knew his father was alive and decided not to tell anyone. Why would he want her around his kid? I mean really , common sense people.

[AMK]

You are absolutely right! She created the problems herself and then acts like she's the victim. Not wanting someone so untrustworthy and manipulative like Nina around is common sense. In the real world, I would have to set her up with something illegal, drop a dime on her, and watch her be sent to prison - this will keep her away for a long time.