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since when did they become hugging cousins who were happy to see each other???
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They’ve had a heart to heart long time ago. Not sure when specifically but I remeber it happened on screen. -
Yes, I remember such a scene. When all was said and done, they are family, after all.Originally posted by irmhsva View PostComment
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Ugh. Valerie needs to apologise profusely for years, but instead her bit was "we all made mistakes." That is why I'll never like that character. Not because she cheated, but because she didn't really own it. She blamed the wife instead. Lame.Comment
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Ha, after leaving an Ava thread it's nice to see that we still have this opinion in common... right on -
Agreed!! I was annoyed with the storyline as is but the actors did such a great job with the fallout that I now really cannot stand Valerie. I can’t think of anything that can redeem her in my eyes. -
Shellyinphx, I don't care much about Ava - she is a character like Sonny to me, which I'm ok with liking and disliking at the same time, except the writing for her betrays a horrific double standard. Even so, I'm not "a fan" by any stretch. Ava is a baddie - she doesn't claim otherwise. It's Kiki that bugs me because (though she hasn't killed, as you always point out,) she is in many other ways let's just say not a saint - but she uses those very things to point a finger at others, from some high moral perch. I find her similar to Valerie (back then) in that way - a self-righteousness from the position of the person who JUST GOT CAUGHT doing a bad thing, and not owning it but blaming the party it was done to. And just like Valerie's then "Lulu made mistakes too," I find Kiki's argument of "you have done horrible things in the past" an unlikable fallacy. I jiust don't like characters like that, in life or in fiction. If you're bad - own your part. Bad is ok in my book if it's honest. It's the cloak of hypocricy and moral relativism that bugs me to pieces. It'll be hard to like Valerie unless they address this and re-write history, which I can sort of accept. Same with Kiki, but they are only digging deeper in.
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Ah, my friend, three years later and we still see parts of this very differently. I agree that Valerie wronged Lulu deeply and I do wish that the writers had corrected their own bad writing by allowing her to apologize more completely to Lulu. However, I also remember Lulu's own part in breaking trust with her husband, in jumping to unsubstantiated conclusions and especially almost getting Valerie killed. In some ways, BOTH women have had reason to hate each other.Originally posted by bipalova View Post
So, as for Valerie saying, "we all made mistakes," I still have to sit firmly with Valerie on this one. There was some solid truth in her summary retorts to Lulu just after the cabin fire.
Now, of course, at the time and still now, we all agree that Dante and Valerie's mistakes were much greater than Lulu's However, as I said in my opening sentence in this post, Lulu did contribute to creating the mess. Unfortunately for Valerie, the writers used her as their narrator to point out Lulu's contributing actions and choices. Having the other woman take this role is never a good choice and Valerie payed the price. As well, the writers chose to give Lulu the more long-run sympathetic POV by having her apology more than Valerie was seen to do - all while they were writing Valerie more into the background. After a while, it was simply too late for Valerie to do so - certainly not without a more detailed and complex story than she has been given for over two years.Last edited by caitie; October 3, 2018, 11:19 AM.Comment
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I know that there is a difficult early history between Lulu and Valerie. However, there iare difficult histories between a whole lot of GH characters, many of these involving infidelities among family members. Difficult histories from which some of these characters have moved on with good relationships.
As well, in this story specifically, the writing for all three characters was such a mess that I'm happy that they (the writers) appear to want to forget their mess happened.
I know I do - so I'm pleased to see Lulu and Valerie on good terms as cousins and friends. That's the way it could and should have been from the beginning.Comment
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I guess we forgive what we forgive on this show. lol But I will say, there are some characters that have done worse than Valerie just coming on and they have become some of our favorites. I really don't care if Valerie and Lulu are on friendly terms or not. In fact, I probably would like it better if they hated each other because it would give both ladies something to dig their teeth into. I have been waiting for Valerie to come back for a long time and I just hope it's permanent. I hope they test her and Chase more now that they're partners. -
You make a good point. I know I am unreasonable when I just can’t seem to apprecIte certify characters. MYbe it is a credit to really good acting. I can’t seem to like Sam no matter how hard I try and Valerie is the same for me.
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It is bad enough that Valerie is back without the faux hugging scenes. Poor Lulu has been stuck with Nina and Valerie this week. Ugh!Comment
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Good on Lulu because it couldn't be me. lolComment
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I know they had the convo, but I just did not think that they were on huggy, happy- to- see each other, terms. IDK, it all seemed very contrived. I figured they could get through a family gathering fine, but the hug just came as a big surprise to me.Originally posted by irmhsva View Post
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Dearest Caitie, hello and good to see you!Originally posted by caitie View Post
Funny we should meet in a Valerie thread. I see your points, and if Valerie had been an established character, I'd be on board with your "unfortunately the writers had her say this or do this" bit, as if it were out of character. However, we didn't know her at all - this WAS her character. I know her as the woman who came to town, slept with her cousin's husband, and then blamed her cousin for it. I'm sorry, but there is just no going around that. She did those things. Not alone, for sure - Dante is way more guilty in my book than her, and he blamed Lulu as well! But this isn't about Dante. They did it TWICE. Not an "oops" one night stand. And she had the nerve and the cruelty to stand there and recount Lulu's mistakes to her, minor as they were in comparison. I know she was wounded by losing her mom and all that, but that was vile and cruel. I can't pretend that didn't happen. As for Lulu, a long-established character, yes - the writers did make her the bad guy all of a sudden. They needed to have her endanger Valerie's life to even the playing field and make their "mistakes were made" BS stand. I resented that too, because LULU is the character we have known and loved since she was a baby. Her POV should have been written for and honoured. But then again, GH always makes the cheaters the good guys, so no surprise there. Anyway, unless this is addressed, I find it super weird to have Lulu giving her hugs.Comment
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This is an excellent recap, and also goes to point out the downfall of Dante. In my mind, Dante never really recovered from this episode, and that is why we lost DZ. it was a horrible storyline that was so totally unnecessary. Val could have been a great addition to the Spencer family with more depth given to her backstory. Val has spent the last 3 years in the shadows recovering as well. All that said, Val and Lulu hugging could not have been more fake to me. -
Yes, spot on once again... and Maggie his affair is why I don't care if they kill him off instead of recasting... his title of good guy was tarnished
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Lulu has been written as introspective and having a desire to forgive past tresspasses against her; as well as, accepting and taking responsibility for her own misdeeds. She has been working to better herself and is willing to give those that hurt her a second chance, the benefit of the doubt.
Having said that... the scene with Valerie did feel off. Maybe it feels that way to me because I haven't seen Valerie and Lulu work through things on screen like we have with Lulu and Nina. Sure there was a brief scene btwn V&L but no real follow up. Nonetheless, I'm proud of Lulu. She has shown herself to be a generous loving person, I respect that.
However, i still don't like Valerie LOLComment
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im ok with forgiving. but they shouldn't become BFFs or anything. because Val did sleep with Lulus husband. they should be like....bascily they should get along and go to family events th other one is at. but they shouldn't be huggy or kicking back the way Lulu and Maxie doComment
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Please don't shoot the messenger!Originally posted by Q777S View Post
Someone had asked if there had been a scene in which Lulu an Val had agreed to get along, especially since they are family.
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