How is Ben worse? Or is he?

[Cici.lovely]

Ben's original storyline had him written as a cold-blooded serial killer. Now, with his return, he has been rewritten. We (and the other characters) are given the ability to forgive him because he now has been written with "mental illness" and the murders were a direct result of that. Like with all of the other characters, we are able to look past what they have done because they had only done it because of their mental illness. Many of our favorite characters have been responsible for the murder of one person or another, some even without mental illness. Such at Gabi, who felt forced. Nicole, Hope (close enough), Joey, all come to mind. What is the breaking point? Is Ben worse because he killed multiple people, despite mental illness? Or is Hope/Gabi/Joey worse - none were in immediate danger at the exact moment they committed murder. They just "had their reasons".
PS I'm not downing anyone, I am big fans of all of these characters. Please vote!

[KatLovesSoaps]

NGL, this conversation feels redunant when Hope, Tripp, Abby and every other murderer, arsonist, law breaker is running around Salem. He's here to stay and his redemption is underway. Whether people who make excuses for other characters of Salem like it or not.

[newyorknewyork]

None of those people are serial killers or needs to be on meds to prevent more killings.

[KatLovesSoaps]

LOL wig wearing Abby does. And it makes it even worse - so Tripp and Hope aren't mentally ill they are just a murderer by daytrade.

[CallAboutTheCat]

OK, my main points:

I can accept Ben's redemption because this is a soap and by doing so I will open up the opportunity for a good new storyline and couple. In real life I would NEVER accept his redemption. In Salem I can. Because I am a viewer and I want stories. I have a flexible moral universe in Salem.

I think Ben was way worse than Hope, Joey, Gabi, Eric, or Abigail (other characters who have ended a life in one way or another). In Eric and Abigail's case, they were not trying to end a life, but their actions resulted in ending a life. In Hope, Joey, and Gabi's case, they were driven to desperation by extreme circumstances to end a single life. In Ben's case, he PRE-PLANNED to MURDER MULTIPLE PEOPLE. He has a higher bar to clear for redemption and forgiveness. But he can clear it with good writing.

Again. In my real moral universe I would not accept Ben, nor several of the others. But in my flexible moral universe of Salem, they can all get back in good graces by jumping through some hoops. A redemptive love story can be a great good that overcomes soap opera evils.

[Cat women]

I can accept Ben's rewrite, but I don't want to pretend he didn't murder 4 people(yes even Will). He stalked and killed 3 of this victims for the thrill of the kill, he murdered Wendy because she was in the way. Ben knew what he was doing, he was cold and calculating. He wasn't provoked into doing it like Joey who was protecting his mom, he didn't do it accidentally like Abby who was trying to get Andre to let her go.........Ben is in a different category, and it should be dealt with. Joey is still in prison, but Ben pretty much skated on his serial killer crimes. I'm very happy that the show is addressing that Ben killed people.

[rpmaluki]

Ben is a complicated character. If you hate him, then he's faking it and is evil to the core because he killed several people and nothing will ever change that opinion regardless of what happens on screen. I do think he had a sever mental break and what he did was extremely terrible, something that is completely unforgivable by those directly affected like Eve, Sami/Lucas (even though Will is now alive), Abby (even though I HATE how he was thrown under the bus for her, to move from one guy to the next and make it easier for her) Serena's and Wendy's friends and families. They can hate him forever and never forgive him and I can deal with that. I don't expect anything less.

I understand what happened to the character to explain his actions, seeing him want to become a functioning (healthy) member of society is compelling to watch and there plenty of potential in that recovery storyline (the tension/drama), no pretending all is well. I'd rather he never relapse and I hope he doesn't. What happened with Ciara in the cabin is realistic and something scary and makes Hope's fear justified but I suspect the show wants Ben to become a viable character again and even more so, they want him to be a viable love interest for Ciara and that cannot happen if he's faking his recovery or they cause him to break and start killing again. There'd be no need to connect him so intimately with Ciara if all they want is for him to keep being the crazy villain. Tripp is no Chad to play Ciara's hero the same way Chad played Abby's and honestly they can't repeat that plot, it will never be believable today. Tripp looks more like a boy compared to Ben, even stepping up to Ben seems laughable. Maybe some buy his bravado but I think many don't and see him more like an incessant fly that needs to remove itself from Ben/Ciara's orbit.

[soapjunkie1987]

Very well said, and I agree.

[dee2]

I believe that Ben is a serial killer, never mentally ill at the time he willfully killed and tortured. I will never accept him as any thing else, no matter how
the show writes it and certainly never in Hope's life. I will be skipping a lot of the show with him in it.

[CincyLady]

Ben's original storyline had him as a normal young man. Then the writers decided to make him deranged and it was great drama. THEN they realized what a gem he was - the actor and the character - and now they're trying to 'fix' it. Works for me. It's just a show and I'm enjoying every minute of the drama and chemistry between RSW and VK.

[Chabby lover]

I believe Ben is a serial killer and was never mentally ill. I also think that he could kill again at any moment no matter what they change. Ben is crazy and he will never change he is evil.

[KatLovesSoaps]

I believe that about Abby. She's not mentally ill - just a murderer, arsonist who tried to strangle several people and don't forget a CHEATER who slept with Stefano for the fun of it.

[soapjunkie1987]

I don't know that Ben's illness is a rewrite necessarily - when he was holding Chabby hostage, it was pretty clear he was insane. To do what he did, you kind of have to be. But what makes it easy to forgive him for me (besides it being a soap) is that not only was he ill at the time, but he spent over 2 years getting treatment (not near long enough in the real world, but again, it's a soap) and we see on screen that he wants to be better, and he's remorseful. He's genuinely trying to change. Gabi may not have been mentally ill, but Nick put her through hell. It's understandable if she did snap at least in that moment. And Joey from my understanding (wasn't watching at the time) wanted to confess right away but was talked out of it. To me, all 3 are forgivable in their own way, because they've all paid/are paying for their crimes.

[LizWebberFan]

I like Ben and his storyline. Does it push the levels of believability? Sure. But I can definitely buy it. I like tells of redemption. I’d like to think even a cold blooded serial killer can change. I like seeing Ben try to be a better person and change his life. And honestly I love his storyline with Ciara. I hope they get together.

[LizWebberFan]

I believe that Ben is a serial killer, never mentally ill at the time he willfully killed and tortured. I will never accept him as any thing else, no matter how
the show writes it and certainly never in Hope's life. I will be skipping a lot of the show with him in it.


Chabby Lover: I believe Ben is a serial killer and was never mentally ill. I also think that he could kill again at any moment no matter what they change. Ben is crazy and he will never change he is evil.

I think you both have a right to your opinions and to feel the way you do, but I highly disagree. Even if you don't think Ben is mentally ill, which I'm 100% he is, I still think it's possible for him to change. I think he's shown so far that he wants to be be a better person. I think he's sorry for all the death and destruction he caused. It won't be easy but I think it's possible for him to turn his life around and earn redemption.

[evildimeraluv]

It could come out in the end that Ben never actually committed the murders. We've seen it happen before. Remember seeing Marlena "kill" Abe, Roman, Alice, Cassie, Tony, Maggie, and a bunch of others in Salem. That was rewritten to have never been Marlena killing anyone and they all returned from the dead. Or how many times look alikes have been used to redeem a character's crimes.

[soapjunkie1987]

I used to want that, but that would just be a cop out. I prefer that his past stay the same. It makes his redemption story that much more powerful.

[FFF12]

Well my outlook is a bit different in that I say that yes Ben was/is mentally ill---however IIRC the first two murders of Serena and Paige were initially ones that Chad came under suspicion for. My theory is that Pappy Clyde committed those murders and framed Chad in order to remove him from the scene as Chad was coming between Ben and Abigail and Clyde very much wanted that relationship to happen in order to attain increased social status (as a cover for Clyde's highly illegal activities) for Ben and by extension himself. I think it could easily be re-written so that there are flashback scenes where Ben remembers Clyde informing him of this and saying "Look at the lengths I'm willing to go to for you boy show a little gratitude!" at which point Ben (who is utterly horrified and suffering from undiagnosed mental illness) flips out, internalizes all of this and becomes convinced that he himself has committed the murders and from there on in is determined to keep this fact a secret and to hold on to Abigail/ the baby he thinks is his at all costs even if he has to kill again. A bit far-fetched but not any weirder than what actually did happen---in fact I kinda think it makes more sense myself LOL! It would explain a lot of things including why Clyde was shown observing Chad's antagonistic altercations with Serena and Paige.

[anitalyfe]

I don't think Ben is worse at all. What I think people get hung up on is that Ben hurt Abby so OMG how awful he is. Now there are people who genuinely don't like him and that's fine but a lot of hate stems from him being mean to Abby. Which ok fine I get it. But at least own it instead of pretending like it's for deeper BS reasons. It cracks me up because you can excuse EJ or Jack or Tripp or Hope or Abby or Stefano or John but Ben is too far gone. Like what?

I really honestly cannot understand the mindset that "Ben is a killer and will kill again." What the heck are you basing this on? Absolutely NOTHING! Ben is a character that is written based on the writers whims. He was written in a way to be a villain to facilitate a plot point. He had to be the heavy in the story because often times writers are creatively bankrupt and don't know another way. I don't think the show execs counted on him being a compelling character with the audience after doing what he did and since they are so far ahead it was too late to do much about it. So they do what soaps always have to do and bring back a bad character or try and redeem one. Now I like Ben so I'm fine with it LOL but I do hate that soaps cannot let a good thing die or just let some characters be bad.

I think Ben was written into a corner because they saw him as expendable and as a way to prop what the writers wanted. So bringing him back is fine with me mainly because I love him and Ciara together. I'm a hypocrite and I know it.

But he's not worse for me mainly because a.) he acknowledges what he did b.) paid for it (not in real life ways but 2 years on a soap is pretty decent IMO) and c.) isn't being excused by everyone-most hate him and rightfully so

Plus I hate that people expect everyone on soaps to be vanilla characters. There should be good, bad, and in between. It's part of what makes a show exciting to watch. Pigeon holing everyone into 1 group or forcing everyone to be Debbie Do Gooders is ridiculous.

[Jj1701]

Everything you just said. Co-sign.

[soapjunkie1987]

And I co-co-sign.